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2019 Canadian Grand Prix

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Wobbuffet

F1 Senna Equivalent
May 20, 2016
3,133
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The Stewards were correct; you'll need to reword the Sporting Regs to get around that one.

38.5 If the driver of car number 5 cracks when he's under pressure he shall be allowed to retain his position regardless, because he wants to re-enact 2002 and pretend he's Schumi.

46.2 The driver of car number 5 shall be encouraged to act like a child if he does not get the top step.

Fixed it for you.
Yeah he stayed ahead of Hamilton but what do you expect him to do after recovering - move over and let him by a couple corners later.o_O

And with what Seb did after the race I don't blame him one bit, I would've been pissed off as well in that situation (and I applaud him for actually having the balls to swapping around the position boards), like do you expect him to be smiling and happy after what happened, as far as Seb is concerned (as well as I and many other people) he had been unfairly penalised.

Remember the car gave Seb a unexpected second oversteer moment to worry about due to the grass on his tyres and it put him on the racing line once he controlled it, so to go back and get you to answer my question to you - what else could Seb do in that situation?

@Wobbuffet I am sorry you are a Vettel fan. I will never understand why. (y)

Why are you sorry? You don't need to pity Vettel fans:ROFLMAO:, as theres nothing to be sorry about - sure Seb has his faults from time to time but he's only human, I said it before to you Steve the man sometimes wears his heart on his sleeve during races and I like that, you can't question his passion, desire or drive to win as it shows he cares.

I like that raw emotion (like Senna had) and if he had gone to the podium area like normal with a robotic 'good race guy's' over the radio after the race and then had a smile on his face after getting out the car then I would've been concerned.

I mean what do you want from drivers Steve? Do you want robots with no personality (like Hamilton) or someone who isn't afraid to speak his mind and call bullshit when it happens.

Look if you haven't seen this then if your going to watch any of it watch the last minute, if you can't like/appreciate a driver with a personality like that off the track then I feel sorry for you.

Lastly I actually feel sorry for you Steve, as the only reason your really supporting Hamilton is basically because of his nationality (which you more or less said yourself back in the 2017 British gp thread) and because of that I think you are blinkered which is a shame.

Sure I have no issue with people genuinely supporting a driver because of primarily what he brings and does on the track, but don't simply blindly follow & support a driver due to the flag he's representing - that's no different then being like a sheep.
 
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Steve Jackson

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Jan 14, 2014
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It's not about 'supporting' Hamilton. The decision was the correct one.

How do you feel about Ferrari's appeal? It can't succeed as it wrecks the foundation of sport. Just because there's a lot of money involved things have to get messy and clouded.

If you think they are appealing for the good of the sport, let me tell you they haven't been in it for the love of the sport; they're in it for the love of Ferrari (as are all manufacturers).

It was a boring as hell race. 2011 was the last epic around here. JB is my hero, and oh look, Vettel cracked in THE BEST CAR. :p

Vettel's hero is Schumacher. Michael Schumacher single-handedly killed my interest in F1 for a good while; maybe thinking about it he did get a helping hand from Ferrari, so maybe I'm biased, who knows? I have found Vettel likeable at times, but my opinion of him changed over time; he only has eyes for that finger (himself).

Edit: Okay, finally. I'll use a football analogy.

Define a foul.

A foul is when a player plays the man, not the ball. Doesn't matter if he wins the ball, if he takes everything . There is a grey area if he wins the ball cleanly first and then catches the player as a secondary. If he is out of control in a tackle, it does not matter. It is still a foul and he could even be sent off depending if the out of control part is reckless, deliberate or dangerous.

This incident was clearly a penalty. Vettel was out of control, not deliberately, but the fact was he clearly impeded Hamilton who took evasive measures to avoid a collision. With the need for that evasive action, Vettel retained the position, thereby gaining an advantage. The rules are quite clear on that. If you gain a position, give it back. If you retain the position, you invariably get a penalty.
 
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Chickano

PS4 GT3 S9 AM Champion
Premium Member
Jan 30, 2018
301
334
LOL @Steve Jackson . Vettel only has eyes for himself? Coming from a Hamilton fan that beggars belief. Hamilton is the very definition of narcissist. Quite frankly the guy is a dick, irrespective of his talent behind the wheel which is obvious and not for dispute. He spouts the same drivel every time a mic is put in his face. The one thing I'll give his personality, is that when it rains he's one of the first to want to go racing. Other than that he has all the appeal of a stale digestive biscuit. Not even a stale hob nob chocolate digestive, but a stale, plain, Aldi's own brand digestive biscuit.
 

Chickano

PS4 GT3 S9 AM Champion
Premium Member
Jan 30, 2018
301
334
Disclaimer:this is just banter. Ham is a great driver, but my god i find him annoyingly dry outside the cockpit
 

xMinxG

F1 Senna Equivalent
Apr 1, 2016
2,035
402
This thread lel.

Kinda happy I stayed off twitter and reddit now.
 

Steve Jackson

AOR Legend
Premium Member
Jan 14, 2014
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LOL @Steve Jackson . Vettel only has eyes for himself? Coming from a Hamilton fan that beggars belief. Hamilton is the very definition of narcissist. Quite frankly the guy is a dick, irrespective of his talent behind the wheel which is obvious and not for dispute. He spouts the same drivel every time a mic is put in his face. The one thing I'll give his personality, is that when it rains he's one of the first to want to go racing. Other than that he has all the appeal of a stale digestive biscuit. Not even a stale hob nob chocolate digestive, but a stale, plain, Aldi's own brand digestive biscuit.
I'm an F1 fan. I think it's great we have a potential 6 time WDC, or we'd be saying "Where is all the driving talent from this country?" Russell and Norris are doing pretty well considering.
 
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Wobbuffet

F1 Senna Equivalent
May 20, 2016
3,133
1,801
It was a boring as hell race. 2011 was the last epic around here. JB is my hero, and oh look, Vettel cracked in THE BEST CAR. :p

Vettel's hero is Schumacher. Michael Schumacher single-handedly killed my interest in F1 for a good while; maybe thinking about it he did get a helping hand from Ferrari, so maybe I'm biased, who knows? I have found Vettel likeable at times, but my opinion of him changed over time; he only has eyes for that finger (himself).
Yeah Seb did make a error, but the most important part of that race was what happened in the early laps or are you still conveniently forgetting that JB took out Hamilton, funny that you still ain't told me who was at fault for that incident. ;)

So that's the reason why you have a axe to grind with Seb, because Schumi was his hero and he's also driving a Ferrari. :p

With Seb's post race standard winning finger celebration again I can understand why that annoyed some fans, but I believe that's was all it was to him - a trademark celebration (not malicious).
In a way its no different to when Ronaldo scored a goal and keeps doing this celebration:

(Personally that kept annoying the hell out of me - but for Ronaldo that's was his standard celebration)

Look you won't get any argument from me about the F1 era back then in the early 2000's, Schumacher & Ferrari's dominance wasn't exactly fun to watch, but if I was playing devils advocate I could easily that I expect many are hating the hybrid era, with what looks like the in general Hamilton & Mercedes dominance - but I'm sure you wouldn't be one of those hating it, but if Hamilton had not joined Mercedes and they had no British driver, then I'm guessing your interest in F1 Steve would've been killed again by now?
It's not about 'supporting' Hamilton. The decision was the correct one.

How do you feel about Ferrari's appeal? It can't succeed as it wrecks the foundation of sport. Just because there's a lot of money involved things have to get messy and clouded.

If you think they are appealing for the good of the sport, let me tell you they haven't been in it for the love of the sport; they're in it for the love of Ferrari (as are all manufacturers).

This incident was clearly a penalty. Vettel was out of control, not deliberately, but the fact was he clearly impeded Hamilton who took evasive measures to avoid a collision. With the need for that evasive action, Vettel retained the position, thereby gaining an advantage. The rules are quite clear on that. If you gain a position, give it back. If you retain the position, you invariably get a penalty.
Don't get me wrong I'm not completely oblivious to the arguments of those on the other side of the coin, but over recent years how many times have we seen someone go off the track, (whether that's missing a chicane or cutting a corner) but still stay just ahead of a driver and not get penalised for it.

Again I get the point about Hamilton having to get on the brakes but that was because of the wall to his right, but if this had happened at the Sochi parking lot circuit for example - would Hamilton still got on the brakes or would he have gone over track limits and just driven around Seb?

(In that scenario that would lead to a opposite argument with Seb & Ferrari wanting the position back for overtaking off the track but Hamilton & Merc likely countering he was forced wide what would the stewards decide for that?)

Anyway my point being is theres not been a consistency by the stewards from what I'm seen/remembered, when incidents of this kind happen, and that's why (for me anyway) the pen is a harsh one to put it politely.
Now my opinion on this isn't going to change as I suspect yours won't either Steve so all that's left to do is went and see if Ferrari do indeed appeal (they have until Thursday) and if the FIA decides it has any merits.

I will add though my opinion on it since you asked, as you said all the manufacturers are looking out for themselves. (like had the roles been exactly reversed Merc would be doing the same thing guaranteed) But I honestly couldn't care less if this wrecks the foundations of the sport, as this goes beyond Seb getting his pen removed, the stewarding in general in F1 needs an overhaul of its current standard 3 man panel as it were.

Other than that he has all the appeal of a stale digestive biscuit. Not even a stale hob nob chocolate digestive, but a stale, plain, Aldi's own brand digestive biscuit.
That's probably one of the best descriptions of Hamilton I've ever read, if I could've I would have given your comment a 'like', 'agree', 'winner' & 'funny' - but since I could only choose one I went for 'funny' because it did give me a good laugh.

Looks like I need to being thinking more outside the box in future when coming up with my own.
 
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Wobbuffet

F1 Senna Equivalent
May 20, 2016
3,133
1,801
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48583803 (Jolyon Palmer)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48593772 (Alex Wurz)

I'm almost 100% in agreement with both.
If that is the case Steve then please explain how Hamilton was not given a penalty for this 3 years ago (and remember these cars are less wider then todays, so less excuses):

Fundamentally there is no difference between this and Seb a few days ago, (who would've thought Hamilton made an error while leading shock horror ;)) sure you could maybe claim Hamilton had more control of his car when he was getting back on the circuit, (but he would've also lost grip from his tyres going off on to a damp patch) he then proceeded to move over back towards the racing line and in turn move Ricciardo towards the wall and block him from potentially passing, so this should've been a slam dunk as well shouldn't it based on the rules you've said.

(Oh and just to point out what you said in a post about Seb's incident)
This incident was clearly a penalty. Vettel was out of control, not deliberately, but the fact was he clearly impeded Hamilton who took evasive measures to avoid a collision. With the need for that evasive action, Vettel retained the position, thereby gaining an advantage. The rules are quite clear on that. If you gain a position, give it back. If you retain the position, you invariably get a penalty.
So pretty much based on what you said above and using your same criteria - Hamilton would've gained an advantage by retaining the position and impeding Ricciardo 3 years ago, its like as you said 'The rules are quite clear if you gain a position, give it back. If you retain the position, you invariably get a penalty.'
But the pen wasn't given to Hamilton. o_O

If I'm doing the Ferrari appeal not only would I'd be pointing out and using this as additional evidence but ask one crucial question to the FIA - where's the consistency by the stewards? You can't have 2 similar incidents and penalise one but not the other.
Its simple really if you didn't penalise Hamilton in that instance then you can't penalise Vettel, as that would be a pretty big contradiction in use of applying the rules.

Oh and lastly just an fyi I prefer Messi to Rolando - its no contest for me.
Do feel your being a bit harsh to Schumacher putting him in the same bracket as Ronaldo as a person, though Ronaldo is mutual good friends with a certain someone it seems like:
Image result for hamilton ronaldo
Image result for hamilton ronaldo
 

Steve Jackson

AOR Legend
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Jan 14, 2014
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There was never a gap, Hamilton held the line as soon as he had control and the speed differential was not there in the wet. In the dry it is way faster. I think you're clutching at straws.

Yeah Ronaldo never sought out Vettel, because why would he? There are pictures of Hamilton with everyone, not that it seems to affect him in the car too much,

Seb maybe ought to hang out with a few more people from different (and yet similar) backgrounds, because he isn't making a good job of it relying on the inside of his own head, is he?
 

Wobbuffet

F1 Senna Equivalent
May 20, 2016
3,133
1,801
There was never a gap, Hamilton held the line as soon as he had control and the speed differential was not there in the wet. In the dry it is way faster. I think you're clutching at straws.
Your missing the most important part, its what happened in the first 4/5 seconds from that clip above - Hamilton in this instance was even defending the inside before the nouvelle chicane, then cuts it - before returning onto the track and being bang on the racing line on the exit, which in turn blocked Ricciardo and as a result stopped him from getting on the power like normal. (remember the racing line through the nouvelle chicane was dry there)

So Hamilton slow with now slightly damp tyres forced Ricciardo to go to the outside (because he come back onto the racing line exactly like Seb), and yeah it was wet where Ricciardo had to go, but the main point still remains Hamilton blocked Ricciardo on the racing line (apparently the same as Seb did to Hamilton) and not only that forcing him into the damp part of the track stopping him from passing him, all of these factors combined is the definition of Hamilton retaining his position - ie: illegally.

Now you & I (and anyone else for that matter) who looks at the clip above knows full well Hamilton had no choice but to do that, otherwise a trip to the wall was waiting at the exit of the nouvelle chicane, but if we're following the letter of the law that you mentioned before then that's a pen. (based by Seb's penalty as there are clear similarities after all)

Or was what happened there in Monaco different in your book mainly because that's a British driver defending the lead.:unsure:

Yeah Ronaldo never sought out Vettel, because why would he? There are pictures of Hamilton with everyone, not that it seems to affect him in the car too much,

Seb maybe ought to hang out with a few more people from different (and yet similar) backgrounds, because he isn't making a good job of it relying on the inside of his own head, is he?
Everyone is well aware that Seb doesn't care much for the celebrity lifestyle and I don't blame him, but whatever people Seb does hang out or are proper friends with, there probably off a much better quality & character then compared to Hamilton's, as do you honest think that Seb would like to be seen associating and being paly with alleged rapists!

Its a well known fact after all that Hamilton is also really good friends with Neymar, who funny enough only recently is alleged to have raped someone, and this is the kind of company that Hamilton likes to keep, socialise regularly and be seen with in the media at every opportunity. o_O
I wonder if there is a common denominator between Ronaldo, Neymar & Hamilton - after all they do say things come in 3's.:whistle:

Regardless of all the media and celebrities crap, all Hamilton probably truly cares about is his 'brand' not the company he keeps - any high profile star he's seen with he likely views as a opportunity to boost his 'brand', and when you consider how many connections he has with the US, he probably wishes he was American really.
He's only likely cares about being British when it suits him and his 'brand' - mainly British GP weekend other then that...
 

Wobbuffet

F1 Senna Equivalent
May 20, 2016
3,133
1,801
Anyway as for today its now or never for Ferrari's appeal, theres an expectation it will be thrown out as it were but I wonder if Liberty will get involved in the background, not in the decision itself but to maybe draw a lot of media attention to it.
If they do, it is not beyond the realms the appeal and Ferrari's case is at least heard (and then likely rejected) as that would cause a lot of headlines and bring the mass medias motorsport spotlight mainly onto F1 for the weekend, while Le Mans is happening...
 

Wobbuffet

F1 Senna Equivalent
May 20, 2016
3,133
1,801
Utterly wrong.


Typical Ferrari run around the endpoints, absolute set of....
Have to admit not impressed after all this, whats the point of lodging an intent to appeal if you don't bloody do it, but even I find it comical that Ferrari are now considering a 'right to review' and have until the day of the French GP itself to do this.
As much as I want to see Seb get this pen overturned, the length of time it could now take just to appeal the original decision is borderline ludicrous.
Why do you post at such ridiculous times?
Yep completely ignore the key point I made to you about that Monaco incident :rolleyes: and as for the time I posted. I can just counter that by asking - 'why does it matter to you?':LOL:

Besides you already asked me this before in one of these threads and I gave you the explanation back then, I ain't going to do it a second time.

If heskey was a f1 driver he'd have 10 championship titles already
Same thing as before if I could have given this post a 'like', 'agree', 'winner' & 'funny' LC I would have, but I had to settle with giving it the 'winner' rating - as there have never been truer words spoken about Heskey then that.(y)
 

Steve Jackson

AOR Legend
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Jan 14, 2014
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Have to admit not impressed after all this, whats the point of lodging an intent to appeal if you don't bloody do it, but even I find it comical that Ferrari are now considering a 'right to review' and have until the day of the French GP itself to do this.
As much as I want to see Seb get this pen overturned, the length of time it could now take just to appeal the original decision is borderline ludicrous.

Yep completely ignore the key point I made to you about that Monaco incident :rolleyes: and as for the time I posted. I can just counter that by asking - 'why does it matter to you?':LOL:

Besides you already asked me this before in one of these threads and I gave you the explanation back then, I ain't going to do it a second time.


Same thing as before if I could have given this post a 'like', 'agree', 'winner' & 'funny' LC I would have, but I had to settle with giving it the 'winner' rating - as there have never been truer words spoken about Heskey then that.(y)
Hope you realise Ferrari are as guilty of furthering / wrecking the sport as Bernie Ecclestone, Liberty, Red Bull (Mateschitz, Horner, Marko et al) dare I say Hermann Tilke? :p

I'm not ignoring something that is completely wrong.

How soon we forget....

Heskey was a legend in a red shirt as much as a blue one (although by the time he left, I wasn't displeased), I'm not going to argue. (y)
 

Wobbuffet

F1 Senna Equivalent
May 20, 2016
3,133
1,801
And the saga continues:

Well at least Ferrari actually did something, the next phase should be whether or not the FIA and stewards thinks Ferrari's new evidence is admissible or not, and if they are satisfied that the new information is significant.

If they get pass that test then there'll hear there case, I guess we'll get some kind of decision this weekend.:unsure: