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2019 French GP

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Steve Jackson

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Nobody wants to talk about Ferrari's compelling evidence and the fact that Vettel is only seventh?

Ain't no one here except me and the tumbleweed......
 
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iJokeri22

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Was tempted to put money on Mercedes winning every race a few months ago starting to wish I had now.

Good to see McLaren on the 3rd row hopefully they can convert it in the race.
 
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DON SILVA

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Mercedes to beat Leclerc by 25+ seconds. Yawn
 

iJokeri22

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Mercedes to beat Leclerc by 25+ seconds. Yawn
There's no point winning by 25 second these days when you have an easy 1-2 just get about 5 seconds in front and cruise round looking after your tyres now I think about it modern F1 is really boring I might watch France 2004 instead. :p
 

Wobbuffet

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Nobody wants to talk about Ferrari's compelling evidence and the fact that Vettel is only seventh?

Ain't no one here except me and the tumbleweed......
I've told you its my year off from doing F1 race threads, it doesn't mean that people don't wish to talk.:p

Up until Q3 Seb was looking in decent shape for 3rd but things went pear shaped unfortunately for him, the way I'm looking at the race is anything higher then 4th for Seb would be a bonus - as merc are untouchable and Leclerc should be up the road by the time/if Seb gets pass Mad Max.

For the race itself for the longterm we really need Bottas to not only take the lead at the start but win the race as well, otherwise the championship outlook for the rest of the season will be pretty much over with the points gap Hamilton's building up.

As for that compelling evidence - I'm sure we were all compelled as it was Chandok giving his take basically via the skypad - how this wasn't accepted as clear new evidence by the FIA is outrageous. :p
Anyway its done now and the Hamilton fans got what they wanted, but it'll never change the fact that the stewards decision greatly divided opinion amongst all F1 fans in general and it was one off the most controversial in recent times which says it all.
 

Steve Jackson

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I've told you its my year off from doing F1 race threads, it doesn't mean that people don't wish to talk.:p

Up until Q3 Seb was looking in decent shape for 3rd but things went pear shaped unfortunately for him, the way I'm looking at the race is anything higher then 4th for Seb would be a bonus - as merc are untouchable and Leclerc should be up the road by the time/if Seb gets pass Mad Max.

For the race itself for the longterm we really need Bottas to not only take the lead at the start but win the race as well, otherwise the championship outlook for the rest of the season will be pretty much over with the points gap Hamilton's building up.

As for that compelling evidence - I'm sure we were all compelled as it was Chandok giving his take basically via the skypad - how this wasn't accepted as clear new evidence by the FIA is outrageous. :p

Anyway its done now and the Hamilton fans got what they wanted, but it'll never change the fact that the stewards decision greatly divided opinion amongst all F1 fans in general and it was one off the most controversial in recent times which says it all.
Don't you mean justice was done?

Ferrari always want to take sport into the gutter. They're like the PSG of F1. Spend loads and feel entitled. **** em.
 

Chickano

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Don't you mean justice was done?

Ferrari always want to take sport into the gutter. They're like the PSG of F1. Spend loads and feel entitled. **** em.
"Valtteri this is James...." Yes, Merc are such icons of sport, they really elevate it beyond the gutter with their sporting sportingness.
 

LC SPEED DEMON

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Here's a question, if Hamilton was in ferrari last season and vettel was in the Merc who do you think would of been champion?
 

iJokeri22

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Slightly predictable got good in the last 3 laps a shame that racing now = penalties so Riccardo will lose his points, feel sorry for Norris as well but he'll gain 1 place.
 
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Steve Jackson

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Here's a question, if Hamilton was in ferrari last season and vettel was in the Merc who do you think would of been champion?
Hamilton, no question. I think, given the obvious deficiencies of this season's Ferrari it would be a lot closer this year.

Anyway, we can't ignore the fact that Gasly is pants and should get the boot from Red Bull. Finally, a solid weekend from Leclerc too. I hope the position is maintained throughout, Leclerc getting better and Vettel just cracking and packing it in by the close season.
 
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Steve Jackson

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They're in the Stewards.

Haven't seen any of the "expert" analysis from Anthony Davidson or Karun Chandhok as I had to go out at race end and have just got back.

My initial feeling was Ricciardo overshot the move on Norris, went deep and then basically rejoined forcing at least Norris wide. Norris stayed wide and Ricciardo then went all four wheels off to try to pass Raikonnen. That's about it. 5 seconds minimum to Ricciardo, maybe 10 as he crowded Norris and made an illegal overtake on Raikonnen, two separate incidents.
 

DON SILVA

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Same haven't feel sleep during a race for a while. Such a garbage track hate to drive it myself on the game
Somehow there have only been 8 races this season. There are several more snoozefests on the horizon
 
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Wobbuffet

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A race that won't live on in the memory which is good as at least we've only got a few days wait until Austria, first 5-10 laps were decent, not much happened in the middle then the antics at the end for the last 3 laps sort of gave the race some talking points.

Don't you mean justice was done?
Nope, but that's your opinion which you are entitled too.
Anyway, we can't ignore the fact that Gasly is pants and should get the boot from Red Bull. Finally, a solid weekend from Leclerc too. I hope the position is maintained throughout, Leclerc getting better and Vettel just cracking and packing it in by the close season.
Why do I get the feeling you were hoping for Seb to have an incident or rant and rave on the radio instead of a solid race (5th was the realistically the best possible after all), wait a second I know why your annoyed he stopped Hamilton getting the grand chelem!:LOL:
(I do agree with your point on Gasly though, but who can they replace him with - Kyvat?o_O)

My initial feeling was Ricciardo overshot the move on Norris, went deep and then basically rejoined forcing at least Norris wide. Norris stayed wide and Ricciardo then went all four wheels off to try to pass Raikonnen. That's about it. 5 seconds minimum to Ricciardo, maybe 10 as he crowded Norris and made an illegal overtake on Raikonnen, two separate incidents.
I'm beginning to think your an actual FIA Steward,;) I think 5 seconds would have been fair the move on Norris unfortunately warranted a pen, but the one on Raikkonen I'm less convinced, you could argue he blocked him. Either way its the last lap and I wouldn't get off the throttle and basically hold position, especially with Hulkenberg getting a free run on the outside in that situation.

Here's a question, if Hamilton was in ferrari last season and vettel was in the Merc who do you think would of been champion?
I still think and fully believe that even if Seb had a flawless season last year he still wouldn't have won the championship for one reason and one reason only - Ferrari went literally backwards on car development (they thought they had brought car upgrades at Singapore) it turned out they had a negative effect and Ferrari admitted this themselves.
By the time they realised and took those 'upgrades' off (USA) and got back on track not only had Hamilton and Merc stepped up their game they reeled off 3 consecutive wins, then add Seb's car issue at Brazil and from those 4 races that's around a 50 point gap right there through no fault of Seb or any driver in that position.

Its because of this why I don't think Hamilton would have won it in a Ferrari either, Seb was 88 points behind Hamilton and sure his critics will point out those spins/mistakes, but without them it wouldn't have made a difference to the final outcome, sure it would've been a lot closer but as I said above Seb would've lost out in the final third of the season, same as Hamilton would've if he was driving Seb's Ferrari.

The 2017 & 2018 seasons in terms of outright speed and performance between Hamilton & Seb, if we're all honest there wasn't much between when they were both on it, and that's why I think Seb would have won it in the Merc in 2018 if the roles were reversed LC. (and yes even if he had a couple spins included);)
 

Steve Jackson

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A race that won't live on in the memory which is good as at least we've only got a few days wait until Austria, first 5-10 laps were decent, not much happened in the middle then the antics at the end for the last 3 laps sort of gave the race some talking points.


Nope, but that's your opinion which you are entitled too.

Why do I get the feeling you were hoping for Seb to have an incident or rant and rave on the radio instead of a solid race (5th was the realistically the best possible after all), wait a second I know why your annoyed he stopped Hamilton getting the grand chelem!:LOL:
(I do agree with your point on Gasly though, but who can they replace him with - Kyvat?o_O)


I'm beginning to think your an actual FIA Steward,;) I think 5 seconds would have been fair the move on Norris unfortunately warranted a pen, but the one on Raikkonen I'm less convinced, you could argue he blocked him. Either way its the last lap and I wouldn't get off the throttle and basically hold position, especially with Hulkenberg getting a free run on the outside in that situation.

I still think and fully believe that even if Seb had a flawless season last year he still wouldn't have won the championship for one reason and one reason only - Ferrari went literally backwards on car development (they thought they had brought car upgrades at Singapore) it turned out they had a negative effect and Ferrari admitted this themselves.
By the time they realised and took those 'upgrades' off (USA) and got back on track not only had Hamilton and Merc stepped up their game they reeled off 3 consecutive wins, then add Seb's car issue at Brazil and from those 4 races that's around a 50 point gap right there through no fault of Seb or any driver in that position.

Its because of this why I don't think Hamilton would have won it in a Ferrari either, Seb was 88 points behind Hamilton and sure his critics will point out those spins/mistakes, but without them it wouldn't have made a difference to the final outcome, sure it would've been a lot closer but as I said above Seb would've lost out in the final third of the season, same as Hamilton would've if he was driving Seb's Ferrari.

The 2017 & 2018 seasons in terms of outright speed and performance between Hamilton & Seb, if we're all honest there wasn't much between when they were both on it, and that's why I think Seb would have won it in the Merc in 2018 if the roles were reversed LC. (and yes even if he had a couple spins included);)
Kimi blocked Ricciardo? Did you read what I wrote about Canada if there was no wall? Kimi did not move! He is entitled to hold his line; if you're telling me he needs to leave space for a car trying to ovetake before the overtake even started?.... Ricciardo tried the overtake off the track because Hulkenberg was coming from the other way with a mega draft! Ricciardo fucked the move up on Norris and then went double jeopardy to retrieve the situation!

Hamilton doesn't need the FL point. let's be honest. It's a silly rule and they should drop it anyway, it would be like awarding points for pole. You're already in the best place to win the race, why have a points head start? Seriously, bolting on a pair of tyres when there's no position to be lost to set essentially a qualifying lap when everyone else is using tyre management? Entertainment? Added value? **** right off!

If you're saying I can interpret the rules correctly then yes, I can. I'm not saying the rules are perfect, but rules is rules and the same for everyone.


When he was winning, I never heard Vettel say this once. Because, he's exactly like Schumacher. A relentless German (when they're on top).
 

Wobbuffet

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Kimi blocked Ricciardo? Did you read what I wrote about Canada if there was no wall? Kimi did not move! He is entitled to hold his line; if you're telling me he needs to leave space for a car trying to ovetake before the overtake even started?.... Ricciardo tried the overtake off the track because Hulkenberg was coming from the other way with a mega draft! Ricciardo fucked the move up on Norris and then went double jeopardy to retrieve the situation!
Riccardo said it best:

Ok so 'blocked' may not be the correct term, but either way Raikkonen did move to cover the right side of the track and Danny Ric went right of him and off the track no arguments, however what I would argue is that Raikkonen then moved to the left and let Ricciardo back on the track (all 4 wheels) and at that point he technically hadn't passed Raikkonen, look at the video below at 0:46 and you'll see that:


Alright the 'rules' may say that its still a pen (0:22), but if that is the case then going back in time to a similar incident, why was Hamilton not penalised back at Bahrain 2012 for his overtake on Rosberg?
Fundamentally Hamilton did exactly the same as Riccardo back then, but for some strange reason no penalty was given to him. o_O

(just to rejog your memory if you need it)

If you're saying I can interpret the rules correctly then yes, I can. I'm not saying the rules are perfect, but rules is rules and the same for everyone.
Sure you can say your interpreting the rules correctly but only when it suits you it seems like, as that last part which I bolded and the Hamilton-Rosberg incident 7 years ago (and Hamilton at Monaco 3 years ago), clearly shows that there not being applied like that over the years and is in fact a clear lie & contradiction.
Now you can defend the stewards and the rulebook all you want, but it doesn't mean that there playing fair to everyone does it.
It just seems like the stewards currently have a policy of 'all drivers are equal but some drivers are more equal then others' when it comes to applying the rulebook.

As for the FL point I ain't a fan of it either, but its a free point up for grabs (for Gasly normally or whoevers 5th out of the Merc's, Ferrari or Mad Max) so what can you do the main 3 teams are going to take it if its available.

When he was winning, I never heard Vettel say this once. Because, he's exactly like Schumacher. A relentless German (when they're on top).
That was because during 2010-2013 there was in general actual genuine competition between multiple teams, but I've gone through the numbers before with you. (yeah last half of 2013 Seb was able to rack up consecutive wins, but all the teams bar RB pretty much stopped developing there cars and were focusing on the new regs during that time)
The hybrid Merc era is pretty much on a different level of dominance compared to that and still is, and lastly what does nationality have to do with anything, yeah Seb and Schumacher are both German - your point being?
 

Steve Jackson

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It's pointless contesting anything because you've got some bad kind of butthurt and rose-tinted specs on. Don't see why you want to hero worship a driver who does nothing outside of the sport to even register on most people's radar.

"Sebastian Who?"

I remain a fan of the sport, I'll happily be critical of anyone who doesn't have it's best interests or doesn't promote it to people outside the normal sphere of influence.

I'll also be a fan of drivers who entertain. Vettel is a dull driver, but occasionally quick. He's also not a great driver, as the chinks in his armour are plain to see. Leclerc has the potential to be great, Ferrari are the least progressive team in terms of attitude towards the sport and the people they hire to do the bloody job. I don't want to see them at the back, but there is a great deal of mirth to be derived from the absolute talents they appear to squander on a regular basis (Raikonnen, Alonso, now Leclerc).
 

Wobbuffet

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It's pointless contesting anything because you've got some bad kind of butthurt and rose-tinted specs on. Don't see why you want to hero worship a driver who does nothing outside of the sport to even register on most people's radar.

"Sebastian Who?"

I remain a fan of the sport, I'll happily be critical of anyone who doesn't have it's best interests or doesn't promote it to people outside the normal sphere of influence.

I'll also be a fan of drivers who entertain. Vettel is a dull driver, but occasionally quick. He's also not a great driver, as the chinks in his armour are plain to see. Leclerc has the potential to be great, Ferrari are the least progressive team in terms of attitude towards the sport and the people they hire to do the bloody job. I don't want to see them at the back, but there is a great deal of mirth to be derived from the absolute talents they appear to squander on a regular basis (Raikonnen, Alonso, now Leclerc).
'Butthurt' Jesus that's something I expect LC to say to me.:ROFLMAO:

Look this is more then about 'Seb' to me, Steve you've known me long enough on these race threads and you know damn well that unlike others I back up what I say when it comes to proper F1 matters and I prove it whether thats with facts, numbers or evidence.

Once again for the umpteenth time you've completely ignored the point I raised with you in my previous post this time with that seemingly replica incident to what Riccardo did, and then try to sweep it under the carpet and make it about Seb which was nothing to do with this incident in the first place.

And ignoring these facts, numbers & points etc is something you always conveniently do when I provide it, as you've never address it afterwards and why? Because it proves without a shadow of a doubt that it rips your points/arguments to shreds and you can't handle that. (which speaks volumes I guess)

Everyone here knows I'm a Seb fan and I will defend him when I feel its necessary, however I do hold my hands up when he does properly f*ck up and if I truly had 'rose-tinted specs' on then I wouldn't criticise him at all, but overall I do consider myself to be quite balanced and fair with all things in F1.

But I do find it ironic you accusing me of being blinded by bias, when you seemingly support drivers mainly because of there British nationality, doing that is putting the biggest rose tinted specs on you and you'll never truly see things clearly while you cling to nationality as a major factor in supporting a driver and when there involved in a incident.
As I found it very telling in the past when you refused to adjudge who was to blame between Hamilton and Button for there coming together at Canada in 2011, though had it been Vettel & Button or Schumacher & Hamilton in that exact same incident, I wouldn't even need to ask you which driver you would apportion blame to do I. :p

Going back to 'Seb' well its my choice as a fan (though I think 'hero worship' is a bit extreme) and he sure as hell makes it more entertaining in general (like post race at Canada), but ultimately what difference does it make if he doesn't wish to get involved with being in the public eye like Hamilton for example.
I mean why does Vettel or any driver for that matter as your suggesting, have a duty to whore themselves out into the spotlight just so F1 can appeal to people who wouldn't/don't genuinely care about the sport, and will disappear once said driver they took an interest in - retires from F1 itself.

If I was an F1 driver then I wouldn't really care or bother with the media, and as for the majority of f1 fans it seems 'fúck'em' (to borrow your own word) there mainly on twitter spouting bile and horseshit anyway every GP weekend.
I'm very much a firm believer that the only real job of a racing driver is in the description of what they get paid to do for their career - it is to race nothing more nothing less, as it should not be a drivers job to promote the sport that's fully down to the owners.

With your last paragraph, Seb whether you like it or not will go down as a 'great' of the sport when he retires and he still can produce great drives, sure he has his faults at times but to also say Seb is dull is ridiculous.
At the end of the day I'm not a Ferrari fan, sure while Seb's there I hope they can give not just Seb but Leclerc as well the tools to do the job and with Leclerc, its only his first season at Ferrari and 2nd in F1 after all.

Without doubt any sensible fan would say this year is a big step for Leclerc and Ferrari - Ferrari as we all know don't normally go for young drivers but they've given Leclerc the opportunity and for him its as such a new learning process this season, to assume Ferrari are wasting his talent at not even halfway through his first season is a bit of an exaggeration I would say, wait and see what things look like after 2 years at least.