2019 Russian Grand Prix | ApexOnlineRacing.com

2019 Russian Grand Prix

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Steve Jackson

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I honestly don't think Hamilton will ever drive for Ferrari I have a feeling if he wins next years championship he might call it a day but if he carry's on why take the risk of going to Ferrari when he has spent years building the Mercedes around him, plus I doubt Ferrari would let him fly off around the world doing all the stuff that he does. I just don't think it would be a good fit plus it relies of Vettel leaving and even then Leclerc will be top dog in Ferrari so Hamilton would be joining his team.
I just think stranger things have certainly happened and he has made no secret of the fact he wants to drive for them one day. I do see the end being nigh for Vettel if he continues to make ricks and not get the best of Leclerc. The Germans certainly don't share the love that Vettel seems to enjoy here, not saying he's got no German fanbase at all but the Brits are passionate about Lewis.

However, if Ferrari are not careful they may have a wantaway if they don't reward the kid's status when he really does challenge for the WDC next year should Ferrari retain their competitiveness at current levels. There could even be a switch between Merc and Ferrari. Sounds implausible, right? Just remember ol' Murray Walker's catchphrase!
 

iJokeri22

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I just think stranger things have certainly happened and he has made no secret of the fact he wants to drive for them one day. I do see the end being nigh for Vettel if he continues to make ricks and not get the best of Leclerc. The Germans certainly don't share the love that Vettel seems to enjoy here, not saying he's got no German fanbase at all but the Brits are passionate about Lewis.

However, if Ferrari are not careful they may have a wantaway if they don't reward the kid's status when he really does challenge for the WDC next year should Ferrari retain their competitiveness at current levels. There could even be a switch between Merc and Ferrari. Sounds implausible, right? Just remember ol' Murray Walker's catchphrase!
I guess we will have just have to wait and see but something about this just doesn't look right.
 

Wobbuffet

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Can't let that slide. Mercedes did not deserve to win, they took advantage of the safefy cars, they fell nicely to their "suck it and see" (ultimately read) best strategy call.

Ironic that it was Vettel's Ferrari that brought out one of the safety cars, someone had the audacity to mention Ferrari reliability last night on Discord....ha ha not really, I'd go with reliability like that, it was one of those things.
Oh I agree that Merc didn't to deserve to win (or get the 1-2), but equally on the flipside Ferrari and Leclerc didn't deserve to win either, everyone knows that playing the SC/VSC game can be a deciding factor in these races currently and this won't be the last time that a slower team on the day wins the race.
Yep the VSC fell into Merc's lap but the real truth is Merc's Q2 strategy won them this race so whoever made that decision/call to put both there drivers on the medium won them this race.

With Ferrari's reliability its very good in general, but Merc's has been slightly better it seems like over the last few years, either way both there respective reliability is still excellent overall in the grand scheme of things.

Problem was, last week Ferrari f**ked up with strategy and stuffed Leclerc. They COMPOUNDED the error by playing "scenarios", what you have to remember is this is a team steeped in the mindset of 'Number One Driver'.

a) they are so inflexible they can't shake said mindset

b) they are confused as to who their number one driver is (hint: it's clearly Leclerc)
Ferrari obviously wanted to make amends to Leclerc for Singapore, but when there trying to decide a race after first corner (or T2 in this case) your assuming the start will go how you think/plan, the reality was Seb had the best getaway of the top 3 and didn't really need the slipstream of Leclerc.
I don't understand what Leclerc expected Seb to do in that situation if Seb eases off the throttle to stay behind Leclerc, then he puts himself at risk from Hamilton and Sainz.

Anyway once Seb took the lead all Ferrari had to do was tell Leclerc during the early SC, that Seb had a incredible launch and that he earned the lead, they would then wait and see what pace Seb has after the restart, if your still around a second behind Seb after 6-7 laps with a gap to Hamilton we'll swap you round, if not keep your head down and we'll do it during pitstops - job done and no need for Leclerc to again whinge on the radio multiple times for the world to hear.
But the Ferrari pitwall panicked and were desperate to appease Leclerc, but Seb then showed he had the better pace and made Ferrari look like idiots in the first place.

You see races like this are the very reason why your point b is still in question, yep Leclerc is on it at qualy currently, but Seb is still very capable of that top quality race pace.
While Seb still has that in his locker Leclerc won't be the 'number one driver' - at the start of next season I would expect equal status for the two until theres a clear advantage pts wise, that would be the sensible approach but who knows it is Ferrari after all...

One opinion that does carry credibility is that Red Bull car that powered Vettel to his 4 WDCs must've been a lot better than we even thought at the time and that unfortunately Mark Webber is more likeable that he is fast.
Who's opinion is that, your own? I think I should point out that's the same Mark Webber who beat Rosberg in the same car, who in turn was more then a match for Hamilton...
Seb got DotD because for some reason he is supported by a load of sycophanic fcuks like you.
Sure label Seb fans as 'sycophantic' but no need to swear and insult me, (yeah I know you deliberately ain't spelt it correctly but we all know for all intents and purposes that you are) look we've butted heads enough times over the last couple years and lambasted each other on numerous occasions.
But I've never swore and insulted you, but if that's the new route you want to take our arguments then I'll be more then happy to return the favour like - how 'fcuks like you' are simply Vettel haters.;)

The Germans certainly don't share the love that Vettel seems to enjoy here, not saying he's got no German fanbase at all but the Brits are passionate about Lewis.
With that what does it matter, despite that you clearly think f1 fans from whatever country there from should be supporting a driver from their own country, it just isn't the case any more these days. (common sense prevails)
Though I'd strongly disagree that 'Brits are passionate about Lewis' he's been the most polarising British driver in F1 in recent times, with British F1 fans I'm strongly incline to believe that the majority of them most importantly support other drivers, let alone the fact some of them don't like him, I think you really do overestimate the percentage of Hamilton's British fanbase.
Either way if I was to combine the British support for Seb, Mad Max, Ricciardo, Raikkonen, etc it would be hell of a lot higher then Hamilton's fans/support.

But thats the thing Hamilton, Seb and all the drivers are supported by fans from around the world (even if you don't understand it as I said to you before you don't need to;)), I mean I remember a few years ago back at Mexico despite Hamilton winning the championship the race before at USA, the Mexican fans were chanting 'ole ole ole Nico Nico' when Rosberg won and I think they did that the year later when Hamilton won and Rosberg finished 2nd.:LOL:

Its things like that that go to show that f1 fans are alot more open minded these days, sure you will always have a core group of fans that will blindly support a driver simply because of there nationality ie: Fanatic Brits and Hamilton, Mad Max and his Oranje, Finnish fans at Hungary, etc.

Lastly Hamilton to Ferrari I highly doubt it, but it could happen if Seb retires next year after winning his 5th WDC.
(Hey I entitled to dream ain't I :D)
 

Steve Jackson

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In response, your guilt is by association. Most Vettel fans are desperate for him to return to dominance that he enjoyed at Red Bull.

I honestly did not mind him at first, the problems began when he stopped winning, something he's managed to make a career out of (not winning, that is) post 2013.

His outbursts are quite petulant and public, they're not directed at anyone in particular, just tantrums that he'd do better to control.

Compare to Alonso, who had plenty of directed outbursts; including at his team or drivers. I'm sure they were a continuance of the punches not pulled in private.
 

Erti147

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I guess we will have just have to wait and see but something about this just doesn't look right.
Wowwww is it cos he's black cos that's what Ali G said

Over the years I've wanted to **** over this picture, but the actual idea of it happening and whether I feel like wanking depends on my mood upon each occasion I see it.
 
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iJokeri22

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Wowwww is it cos he's black cos that's what Ali G said

Over the years I've wanted to **** over this picture, but the actual idea of it happening and whether I feel like wanking depends on my mood upon each occasion I see it.
Firstly I've been waiting since I posted that for you to come in and say "is it cos hes black" and secondly you really are a dirty bastard aren't you. :ROFLMAO:
 

Wobbuffet

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In response, your guilt is by association.
Oh come on Steve I'm 'guilty by association' that's a ridiculous statement you can't tar all fans of Seb or any driver for that matter just because you don't agree with what they think or say at times, that's like me claiming your just a typical Hamilton fanboy because you don't think he's ever done anything wrong when he's battled wheel to wheel.

Look I know full well I'm pretty balanced overall as an F1 fan (as you are - at times ;)), sure as a Seb fan I will back him but equally when he genuinely underperformed or clearly been at fault then I have no problem saying it, but when it comes to 50/50's or something that can clearly can be debated then naturally I will back him and give valid points and reasons why. (just like any other sensible F1 fan would)

And sure I naturally expect you in most instances (these days) to disagree with me on things 'Seb', but its foolish to label all fans of a driver the same simply because you have preconceptions of those fans.
Most Vettel fans are desperate for him to return to dominance that he enjoyed at Red Bull.
To be honest after 2013 I was very happy and content with what Seb achieved up to that point, not just 4 WDC's with the very rare 4 in a row, but plenty of wins, poles and great memorable performances.
Its because of that, that personally I'm not desperate to see another Seb dominance sure I want Seb to win another WDC, but equally I enjoy it more when he's having to fight for it with multiple drivers.

I mean most f1 fans were bored shitless from 2014-2016, if your a Hamilton/Rosberg/Merc fan then naturally after having a lack of success you were loving it, but equally that period was one of the worst competitively statistically speaking, its because of that period that I never want to see that kind of dominance ever again, its why over these last 3 years that its slowly been readdressed that balance to a degree and have been a lot more enjoyable.

I honestly did not mind him at first, the problems began when he stopped winning, something he's managed to make a career out of (not winning, that is) post 2013.

His outbursts are quite petulant and public, they're not directed at anyone in particular, just tantrums that he'd do better to control.

Compare to Alonso, who had plenty of directed outbursts; including at his team or drivers. I'm sure they were a continuance of the punches not pulled in private.
So let me get this straight its just because Seb's had a fair few moans and odd outburst on the radio, when he's had a debateable on track issue over the past several years that you don't like him, sure its never ideal for a driver to have a moan or outburst on the radio, but at least Seb's being honest about what he's thinking in those instances or would you prefer him or any driver in that instance to be a robot and have no personality?

And by extension I'm guessing now that Leclerc is going down in your estimation rapidly after his constant moaning last couple races, or are his moans ok because there directed to his team?
 

Steve Jackson

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Oh come on Steve I'm 'guilty by association' that's a ridiculous statement you can't tar all fans of Seb or any driver for that matter just because you don't agree with what they think or say at times, that's like me claiming your just a typical Hamilton fanboy because you don't think he's ever done anything wrong when he's battled wheel to wheel.

Look I know full well I'm pretty balanced overall as an F1 fan (as you are - at times ;)), sure as a Seb fan I will back him but equally when he genuinely underperformed or clearly been at fault then I have no problem saying it, but when it comes to 50/50's or something that can clearly can be debated then naturally I will back him and give valid points and reasons why. (just like any other sensible F1 fan would)

And sure I naturally expect you in most instances (these days) to disagree with me on things 'Seb', but its foolish to label all fans of a driver the same simply because you have preconceptions of those fans.

To be honest after 2013 I was very happy and content with what Seb achieved up to that point, not just 4 WDC's with the very rare 4 in a row, but plenty of wins, poles and great memorable performances.
Its because of that, that personally I'm not desperate to see another Seb dominance sure I want Seb to win another WDC, but equally I enjoy it more when he's having to fight for it with multiple drivers.

I mean most f1 fans were bored shitless from 2014-2016, if your a Hamilton/Rosberg/Merc fan then naturally after having a lack of success you were loving it, but equally that period was one of the worst competitively statistically speaking, its because of that period that I never want to see that kind of dominance ever again, its why over these last 3 years that its slowly been readdressed that balance to a degree and have been a lot more enjoyable.

So let me get this straight its just because Seb's had a fair few moans and odd outburst on the radio, when he's had a debateable on track issue over the past several years that you don't like him, sure its never ideal for a driver to have a moan or outburst on the radio, but at least Seb's being honest about what he's thinking in those instances or would you prefer him or any driver in that instance to be a robot and have no personality?

And by extension I'm guessing now that Leclerc is going down in your estimation rapidly after his constant moaning last couple races, or are his moans ok because there directed to his team?
When his team are thwarting his attempts to be the best by their inability to break free from a lifetime of cultural blinkered thinking then no, I don't have any issue with Leclerc.

Plus, how can you not be excited by what he can do in the car? Vettel? Older than yesterday's news.

Yeah I do think Vettel fans have a blind spot for his temperament.

I can sum it up like this. Leclerc's comments come from frustration because he is hungry and driven. He is also a rising junior trying to find his way in that he has achieved nothing meaningful other than being given the Ferrari drive at this level.

Vettel's comments come from his own baggage. He expects to be in contention at the front. His comments come from fear, from a shrinking perspective of former successes and the weight of expectation.

Contrast this to Hamilton, remains hungry albeit still in a position of competitiveness. He does not seem to find the weight of expectation a problem, in fact it spurs him on and he still looks towards records he doesn't yet match up to. He is driven to be a great.

And there is the nub. Vettel should be where Leclerc is in all this. He wasn't great against Ricciardo, Kimi was compliant. Leclerc is next gen, quite the young charger Vettel once was to secure a drive at Red Bull.
 

Wobbuffet

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When his team are thwarting his attempts to be the best by their inability to break free from a lifetime of cultural blinkered thinking then no, I don't have any issue with Leclerc.

Plus, how can you not be excited by what he can do in the car? Vettel? Older than yesterday's news.

Yeah I do think Vettel fans have a blind spot for his temperament.

I can sum it up like this. Leclerc's comments come from frustration because he is hungry and driven. He is also a rising junior trying to find his way in that he has achieved nothing meaningful other than being given the Ferrari drive at this level.

Vettel's comments come from his own baggage. He expects to be in contention at the front. His comments come from fear, from a shrinking perspective of former successes and the weight of expectation.

Contrast this to Hamilton, remains hungry albeit still in a position of competitiveness. He does not seem to find the weight of expectation a problem, in fact it spurs him on and he still looks towards records he doesn't yet match up to. He is driven to be a great.
But Seb's temperament isn't really a problem, he's honest in those moments which is always refreshing compared to the 'biting their tongue' approach that a lot of current grid do, sure Seb's outbursts will always split opinion, you don't like them but I do, just like K-Mag's '**** this' at Austria the year before lol.

Anyway for Leclerc he ended up doing the exact same thing he said he wouldn't do before the race and that was whine and whinge again, I would have much preferred for him to be f'ing and blinding, at least then it would have been much more enjoyable to listen to instead of a monotonous drone, I don't doubt he was frustrated at the situation but equally if your going to complain about something over and over again - mix it up a bit.

And there is the nub. Vettel should be where Leclerc is in all this. He wasn't great against Ricciardo, Kimi was compliant. Leclerc is next gen, quite the young charger Vettel once was to secure a drive at Red Bull.
With this not all great's always beats their teammates, sure Seb has had a off season against Ricciardo, but even Hamilton had a off season and lost to Button one season.;)

As for Seb's comments from 'baggage' - in what way? I mean I've never heard Seb or any driver for that matter sound 'fearful' on the radio (or out the car) if they did it would make headline news in F1. Sure I imagine Seb sets himself a high bar but fearful of it, I honestly don't think that's the case.

And lastly with Hamilton you say he's driven to be a great but that fact is he's already that, (just like Seb) it doesn't matter even if Hamilton does go on to match or beat Schumacher's remaining records it won't put him into a different bracket even if he did - as I told you no driver can truly be the supposed 'greatest of all time' the top tier any F1 driver can aspire to is 'great' as look at this way.

Not only do you already have 2 still very young drivers at top teams but with more races in the future, single season records will all eventually go and long-term they'll be competing for championships every season, one if not both will likely go on to surpass many records and then add the continual future talents that come through over the next decades, Hamilton's pole record (and probable win record will go) just like Seb's the youngest champion and pole sitter- as the old mantra goes 'records are made to be broken' and you know that's true.
 

Wobbuffet

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Button's way better than Hamilton. We'll always have Canada '11 and the following season at Spa. Untouchable.
I'm surprised that hasn't got a 'reaction' from Erti,:ROFLMAO: yeah JB had his moments no arguments.

Though something I've always wanted to ask you Steve as your a Button fan, your thought's/emotions must have been on a absolute rollercoster from at the end of the 2008 season to the end of 2009 season?

Button's Honda on fire in the pitlane at the end of Brazil and Honda then suddenly deciding to pull out of the sport and JB was going to be left with out a drive, but then the late Brawn takeover which it led and resulted in one of the most unexpected and incredible success stories in F1 history.

But thinking about it now, Brawn's takeover actually had a eventual massive knock on effect into recent times - they were brought by Mercedes.
To think F1 would probably be in a very different place today had Brawn not brought Honda's entry back then, to be honest I'm not doubting that Mercedes would have probably/likely still ended up in F1 eventually but equally they would have been working and starting off from scratch, they might/could have joined still joined F1 in 2010 as a brand new team alongside Lotus, Virgin (and instead of HRT).
However even if they did they still wouldn't have had the crucial ground work that Brawn laid down and provided for them in their early years and leading into the hybrid era, though on the flipside they might not have ended up in the sport as a works team at all...
 

Steve Jackson

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I'm surprised that hasn't got a 'reaction' from Erti,:ROFLMAO: yeah JB had his moments no arguments.

Though something I've always wanted to ask you Steve as your a Button fan, your thought's/emotions must have been on a absolute rollercoster from at the end of the 2008 season to the end of 2009 season?

Button's Honda on fire in the pitlane at the end of Brazil and Honda then suddenly deciding to pull out of the sport and JB was going to be left with out a drive, but then the late Brawn takeover which it led and resulted in one of the most unexpected and incredible success stories in F1 history.

But thinking about it now, Brawn's takeover actually had a eventual massive knock on effect into recent times - they were brought by Mercedes.
To think F1 would probably be in a very different place today had Brawn not brought Honda's entry back then, to be honest I'm not doubting that Mercedes would have probably/likely still ended up in F1 eventually but equally they would have been working and starting off from scratch, they might/could have joined still joined F1 in 2010 as a brand new team alongside Lotus, Virgin (and instead of HRT).
However even if they did they still wouldn't have had the crucial ground work that Brawn laid down and provided for them in their early years and leading into the hybrid era, though on the flipside they might not have ended up in the sport as a works team at all...
Oh yeah. Really thought that was it for Button. Hamilton had won in 2008 and there was gonna be no team. What happened next was miraculous, take over, pre-season, first race then especially Malaysia where it was half points when they still had the jump with the (questionably illegal) double diffuser. Went to my first GP at Silverstone in 2009 and it was the time when the tide had turned. Won by Seb. Brawn were good at Monza and I remember Hamilton was having a torrid season as a defending WC. He (Button) won it in Brazil and sang "We are the Champions" over team radio. He went to McLaren in 2010 on a dream ticket. Sadly it never really got realised apart from some hot and cold displays in a car that you weren't sure was always competitive. The season was almost a 5 way fight into the last few races.

RB began to dominate after that. It got....dull. A bit like before Alonso came along to depose Schumacher. The odd good race.
 

Wobbuffet

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Oh yeah. Really thought that was it for Button. Hamilton had won in 2008 and there was gonna be no team. What happened next was miraculous, take over, pre-season, first race then especially Malaysia where it was half points when they still had the jump with the (questionably illegal) double diffuser. Went to my first GP at Silverstone in 2009 and it was the time when the tide had turned. Won by Seb. Brawn were good at Monza and I remember Hamilton was having a torrid season as a defending WC. He (Button) won it in Brazil and sang "We are the Champions" over team radio. He went to McLaren in 2010 on a dream ticket. Sadly it never really got realised apart from some hot and cold displays in a car that you weren't sure was always competitive. The season was almost a 5 way fight into the last few races.
Well 2009 saw the new regs of course but with Ferrari & McLaren going all in with their resources for all of the 2008 season, it cost both them dearly at the start of 2009 as McLaren went to the tail end of midfield and Ferrari were in the midfield, the supposed natural order of teams in the F1 book got well and truly ripped up.

Watching Australia I thought it was hilarious as fúck to see a new team order of Brawn, Toyota, Williams, Red Bull and Sauber, (the only thing that would have made that season even better is listening to James Allen squirm as he was ridiculously biased to Hamilton)

The double diffuser originally used by Brawn, Toyota & Williams saw them just like that become the 3 fastest teams, though over the next few races Red Bull became 2nd best and McLaren & Ferrari made there way up the pecking order as well.
However the thing is I felt it was desperation at the time by the other 7 teams that appealed the double diffuser, obviously I understood why they did it but equally there engineers/designers were all caught with their pants down, remember its the golden rule of F1 if there's a clear loophole in the regs (which is open to interpretation and worth laptime in this instance) then you have to exploit it.

Anyway Button had done enough in the first 7 races and Seb ended up missing out though things worked out well for him in the end so I can live with 2009, especially the fact I had lumped on Button, Barrichello & Brawn after the first day of pre season testing.:D

RB began to dominate after that. It got....dull. A bit like before Alonso came along to depose Schumacher. The odd good race.
But we still got plenty of good close races and good competition, 2012 was one of the most competitive seasons ever and 2010 as you said was a 5 way fight for nearly all the season and 4 way at the last race.
I think in the period from 2007-2012 we were very fortunate as fans and well and truly spoiled with 5 incredible seasons out of 6.
 

Steve Jackson

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Well 2009 saw the new regs of course but with Ferrari & McLaren going all in with their resources for all of the 2008 season, it cost both them dearly at the start of 2009 as McLaren went to the tail end of midfield and Ferrari were in the midfield, the supposed natural order of teams in the F1 book got well and truly ripped up.

Watching Australia I thought it was hilarious as **** to see a new team order of Brawn, Toyota, Williams, Red Bull and Sauber, (the only thing that would have made that season even better is listening to James Allen squirm as he was ridiculously biased to Hamilton)

The double diffuser originally used by Brawn, Toyota & Williams saw them just like that become the 3 fastest teams, though over the next few races Red Bull became 2nd best and McLaren & Ferrari made there way up the pecking order as well.
However the thing is I felt it was desperation at the time by the other 7 teams that appealed the double diffuser, obviously I understood why they did it but equally there engineers/designers were all caught with their pants down, remember its the golden rule of F1 if there's a clear loophole in the regs (which is open to interpretation and worth laptime in this instance) then you have to exploit it.

Anyway Button had done enough in the first 7 races and Seb ended up missing out though things worked out well for him in the end so I can live with 2009, especially the fact I had lumped on Button, Barrichello & Brawn after the first day of pre season testing.:D


But we still got plenty of good close races and good competition, 2012 was one of the most competitive seasons ever and 2010 as you said was a 5 way fight for nearly all the season and 4 way at the last race.
I think in the period from 2007-2012 we were very fortunate as fans and well and truly spoiled with 5 incredible seasons out of 6.
Yeah 2012 was quite good fun, Alonso at Valencia sticks out (apart from the JB masterclass at Spa) think Hamilton was hit by Crashtonado. Oh and Williams' last win.