PS4 - AOR Endurance league Round 5: 2 hours of Nürburgring GP 1/12/18 @ 6:30pm UK time. | ApexOnlineRacing.com

PS4 AOR Endurance league Round 5: 2 hours of Nürburgring GP 1/12/18 @ 6:30pm UK time.


Jarryd Vermeulen

AOR PS4 Touring Car T1 Champion
Staff member
PCARS Coordinator
Nov 21, 2017
1,545
1,350
I do not agree with this decision and I challenge it officially

We started in 14 (5+9) , 3 disconnected (we don't know for what reason) during the first part of the race, single events.
12 min to the end we had 4 disconnections, surely related
You are applying the mass disconnection rule but in my opinion there was not a "mass disconnection" as stated by AOR rules. Why?
1) AOR Project CARS 2 Endurance League Season 3 has not a Disconnection Guidelines chapter in the League Information page.... so, if you don't want to make up the rule by yourself, you should apply the rule of the previous Endurance championship, or the most common rule in AOR about mass disconnection
2) as stated here (example) we can speak about a mass disconnection if 4 (or more) drivers are disconnected between Qualifying and Race, or if half (or more) drivers are disconnected during the race at the same time, or over a short period of time
3) we had 4 disconnection at the same time when we were 11 on the track... so less than 50%


I had 3 races this week.
1st was disconnected when in P1 where champ rules say disconnection=zero points: I accepted this
2nd was disconnected 5 min to the end when I was 3rd. Champ says disconnection=last position: I accepted this
3rd was not disconnected but I loose 2 positions (I was able to reach Ale2293 only in the last 10 min so my efforts were useless) because of a new rule? I do not accept this
If more than 90% of the race was completed at the time of the mass disconnection, the race will end, and the race result will be declared as the order at the time of the first disconnection.

Mass disconnection happen with around 8 to 9 min to ago.
 

bax

AOR PS4 Endurance S3 T1 GTE Champion
Mar 24, 2016
226
299
If more than 90% of the race was completed at the time of the mass disconnection, the race will end, and the race result will be declared as the order at the time of the first disconnection.

Mass disconnection happen with around 8 to 9 min to ago.
Mass disconnection in race is when half (or more) of the drivers disconnect at the same time..... so we had NOT a mass disconnection (only 4 of 11), only an unlucky big disconnection
 

Jarryd Vermeulen

AOR PS4 Touring Car T1 Champion
Staff member
PCARS Coordinator
Nov 21, 2017
1,545
1,350
Mass disconnection in race is when half (or more) of the drivers disconnect at the same time..... so we had NOT a mass disconnection (only 4 of 11), only an unlucky big disconnection
Losing 4 to 5 people In a 1 minute is a mass disconnection. We got to 9 to 7 min before the end of the race and people got this issue. The race is 90% done and people have raced all night and in my eyes the most sensible action has been taken.

You may have a different opinion and I respect that. As for now I say good race and see you in 2 weeks.
 
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bax

AOR PS4 Endurance S3 T1 GTE Champion
Mar 24, 2016
226
299
Losing 4 to 5 people In a 1 minute is a mass disconnection. We got to 9 to 7 min before the end of the race and people got this issue. The race is 90% done and people have raced all night and in my eyes the most sensible action has been taken.

You may have a different opinion and I respect that. As for now I say good race and see you in 2 weeks.
What the meaning in wasting time writing rules and then disregard them inventing new ones?

That action was sensible but only one of the possible actions... what about previously disconnected drivers? Why zero score for them? Are they different?
Or... disconnected 50% in LMPH class (2 of 4) but not in the GTE class (2 of 7)
 
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Francis mcginn

Formula 4 1st Driver
Aug 13, 2015
145
36
Q:3 (again)
R:2

Had a good start but was a very lonely race until traffic ran really constant till @Francis mcginn (I think) had a spin right in front of me in the Schumacher Esses and I had no were Togo and both of use got damage. And I though all hope was lost but had one of the best recovery drives ever and ran the most consistent I’ve have ever driven all season and after my last stop was able to to gain enough time to come out infront of @Dennis_Meisner and claim second so another 1-2 for Toyota it’s is.
I’m so sorry about that mate was so annoying for me aswell since my suspension was t repair when I boxed
 

TwisterA1

Pro Karter
May 13, 2018
45
35
I’m so sorry about that mate was so annoying for me aswell since my suspension was t repair when I boxed
Ya no problem accidents happen couldn’t of done anything else to prevent it plus it gave me a good laugh seeing my p1 get wings for a whole second :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

Dennis_Meisner

AOR PS4 S2 LMP2 TEC Champion
Premium Member
Feb 21, 2018
188
160
I do not agree with this decision and I challenge it officially

We started in 14 (5+9) , 3 disconnected (we don't know for what reason) during the first part of the race, single events.
12 min to the end we had 4 disconnections, surely related
You are applying the mass disconnection rule but in my opinion there was not a "mass disconnection" as stated by AOR rules. Why?
1) AOR Project CARS 2 Endurance League Season 3 has not a Disconnection Guidelines chapter in the League Information page.... so, if you don't want to make up the rule by yourself, you should apply the rule of the previous Endurance championship, or the most common rule in AOR about mass disconnection
2) as stated here (example) we can speak about a mass disconnection if 4 (or more) drivers are disconnected between Qualifying and Race, or if half (or more) drivers are disconnected during the race at the same time, or over a short period of time
3) we had 4 disconnection at the same time when we were 11 on the track... so less than 50%


I had 3 races this week.
1st was disconnected when in P1 where champ rules say disconnection=zero points: I accepted this
2nd was disconnected 5 min to the end when I was 3rd. Champ says disconnection=last position: I accepted this
3rd was not disconnected but I loose 2 positions (I was able to reach Ale2293 only in the last 10 min so my efforts were useless) because of a new rule? I do not accept this

I do highly agree - making a statement that the race ends when some still racing, and some dsc are not by the book of rules. It sure sucks for those who had the dsc, been there my self. But I agree ☝ with all above
 

Jarryd Vermeulen

AOR PS4 Touring Car T1 Champion
Staff member
PCARS Coordinator
Nov 21, 2017
1,545
1,350
What the meaning in wasting time writing rules and then disregard them inventing new ones?

That action was sensible but only one of the possible actions... what about previously disconnected drivers? Why zero score for them? Are they different?
Or... disconnected 50% in LMPH class (2 of 4) but not in the GTE class (2 of 7)
The drivers who left the session early are people who quit and the odd person gets DC. And it is irrelevant for them in this case as they hadn't done 75% of the race... plus people who leave the session early like I said do it themselves and the odd driver suffers a DC.

But all that we can do in life is do what we think is right and if that means challenging the result then that is your choice.

And the result wont be changed by AOR in my eyes as I feel the action taken is sensible. Rules are not laws. It's best to remember the difference. Laws must be enforced and rules are there as guidelines and last night it was a mass disconnection and the actions taken are correct as rules are guidelines and you can as the official use common sense in such matters to achieve the right outcome.

But again I stress remember the difference between laws and rules.
 

PRG_FrankForest

Project CARS Coordinator
Staff member
PCARS Coordinator
Premium Member
Jun 18, 2016
2,668
1,813
I did ask the question higher up than myself, i did not award points off my own back. i was unsure of what the rules state so i asked the question what to do next. The points awarded are fair. Yes 2hrs is a long race and to be fair if it the situation was on the other foot, i dont think there would be many complaints. Those that did DSC earlier (or quit) they receive no pts because of no mass DC.

What can be done in the future is to clarify this rule in more detail.
 

bax

AOR PS4 Endurance S3 T1 GTE Champion
Mar 24, 2016
226
299
...And the result wont be changed by AOR in my eyes as I feel the action taken is sensible. Rules are not laws. It's best to remember the difference. Laws must be enforced and rules are there as guidelines....
I agree with you that action taken is sensible but I don't agree with "rules are there as guidelines"... in my opinion rules are there also to solve exceptional issues always in the same way, coherent, not to have different interpretations depending on the situation, mood, friendships, etc...

BTW, I will not complain any more about this, I will accept any decision and I will think about the next race

About my race.... **** :p
Too many races in these 2 weeks, no time to practice on a track where I was never able to get a good result (even if I like this track)
Not able to find a good setup. I could have run faster but I was in danger of spinning in many corners.
I was not the only one in troubles so 30 min to the end I was 5th, lapped, but not so far from ALE2293 who had 5 seconds penalty (me without penalties)
This was the only good thing about my race: I was able to catch him.
8 min to the end I was 7-8s behind him but at the end of the race I was only 1-2s behind him and I gained a position on him counting penalties.... BUT... steward's decision to take as final the standings as they were 8 minutes from the end, when we had 4 drivers disconnection, leave me behind him

So... I surely don't deserve the podium, but I would deserve the 4th position.... :confused: really an unlucky week for me
 

Noxvi

AOR PS4 GT3 S13 T3 Champion
Feb 1, 2018
478
336
People shouldn't be leaving the Race lobby at anytime during race proceedings. There's your cause of Discos ;)
Exactly people should stop leaving the lobbies if you feel like you have no chance in the race (rarely the case) you should retire the car and spectate not leave the lobby because it leaves us all with higher chances for disconnections. I hope this is a new rule and is enforced.
 
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Jarryd Vermeulen

AOR PS4 Touring Car T1 Champion
Staff member
PCARS Coordinator
Nov 21, 2017
1,545
1,350
I agree with you that action taken is sensible but I don't agree with "rules are there as guidelines"... in my opinion rules are there also to solve exceptional issues always in the same way, coherent, not to have different interpretations depending on the situation, mood, friendships, etc...

BTW, I will not complain any more about this, I will accept any decision and I will think about the next race

About my race.... **** :p
Too many races in these 2 weeks, no time to practice on a track where I was never able to get a good result (even if I like this track)
Not able to find a good setup. I could have run faster but I was in danger of spinning in many corners.
I was not the only one in troubles so 30 min to the end I was 5th, lapped, but not so far from ALE2293 who had 5 seconds penalty (me without penalties)
This was the only good thing about my race: I was able to catch him.
8 min to the end I was 7-8s behind him but at the end of the race I was only 1-2s behind him and I gained a position on him counting penalties.... BUT... steward's decision to take as final the standings as they were 8 minutes from the end, when we had 4 drivers disconnection, leave me behind him

So... I surely don't deserve the podium, but I would deserve the 4th position.... :confused: really an unlucky week for me
Bax it is good that we can have these types of chats and we all get our opinions out there. It was an unlucky event but with us as drivers working together I feel we can move forward on this matter and even get the rule to be changed to fit what happened last night.

I'm sorry that it happened and this my first ever race I have experienced such. So this is all new ground to me.

Well done on your race as you kept it clean and you finished. Look forward to us racing again
 
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Slicker

Two time AOR PS4 GT3 Champion
Staff member
PCARS Coordinator
May 9, 2018
3,734
4,037
as one of the drivers affected by the discos, i'd just like to say that at over 90% distance i think it's right to call the race the lap before - in real life if a race is red-flagged at 90% full points are awarded - however, i am quite happy for the mods to review the decision and take the points away if they feel it's right.

what i don't want to see is a lot of people squabbling over it - @FSR_FrankForest asked for guidance and was told that awarding the points was ok, so that should be good enough, but if you want to challenge it, that's ok too.

on a personal level - last night was like i'd spent three days romancing a woman, got her into bed and after 1 3/4 hrs of passion, got interrupted just before i finished - very frustrating !!
 

FOGGY #7

AOR PS4 Project CARS Champion
Premium Member
Dec 30, 2015
4,363
4,137
Exactly people should stop leaving the lobbies if you feel like you have no chance in the race (rarely the case) you should retire the car and spectate not leave the lobby because it leaves us all with higher chances for disconnections. I hope this is a new rule and is enforced.
Thought it was already a ruling ? I always reminded my guys about this before races . A Basic ruling for League racing. Id give penalties for this. As its easy to tell if someone has just left the lobby or genuinely Discoed . It ruins races thats for sure though .;)(y)
 
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Slicker

Two time AOR PS4 GT3 Champion
Staff member
PCARS Coordinator
May 9, 2018
3,734
4,037
two apologies to make from last night 1) @jam_my21 sorry for confusion into turn 1 about half race distance - i was sorting pit strats and just didn't see you coming - well done for avoiding me :) 2) @Noxvi sorry for rear end shunt when lapping you - someone had taken out the marker board which i didn't notice until too late - locked up and couldn't avoid you - my bad
 
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jam_my21

AOR PS4 Endurance S3 T1 LMP1 Champion
Mar 17, 2017
249
243
Just checked on my replay what you're saying @Slicker and yes that was strange as I was planning to pass you on left side you started to move right front of me on my driving line and I had to hit brakes not to hit you. I had enough time and space to move right to pass you safely.

Again my race ended when I noticed that @FN-LEW187 got DC just after/during my 1st pitstop. I had already over 50s lead at that point but as we know so well race is not over until it's over.
This race went well for me as what goes for lapping GTE's. I thought before race this could be nightmare as track was so short and narrow, but I think I didn't have any issues or incident with anyone. Good job for GTEs (y)

See you at Silverstone for wet race. Should be interesting one.
 
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FN-LEW187

Formula 3 Reserve Driver
Apr 24, 2018
238
163
I mean what can I do but laugh at myself at this point xD disqualified for speeding into the pits cos I can’t see anything out of that audi so just had to guess where it was, especially at the start procedure I was completely blind. Lot of stupid spins on my part.. think I’m just a massive bottle job when it comes to race day I can never replicate what I do in practise xD was about a second a lap off. Oh well, hopefully next season goes better for me, I’ve written this one off. maybe a change in cars would do me some good :)
 

JeroCalleja_SPA

Formula 4 1st Driver
Oct 12, 2018
176
177
Exactly people should stop leaving the lobbies if you feel like you have no chance in the race (rarely the case) you should retire the car and spectate not leave the lobby because it leaves us all with higher chances for disconnections. I hope this is a new rule and is enforced.
it should be penalized with forcefulness, any pilot who signs up must accept that the race ends yes or yes, but it is very easy to disguise an abandonment with a disconnection.