AOR Formula Renault 2.0 Championship S4 - Round 4: Brands Hatch | ApexOnlineRacing.com

AOR Formula Renault 2.0 Championship S4 - Round 4: Brands Hatch

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Stevie

Former Super Mod
Premium Member
Aug 26, 2014
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I seriously hope we can avoid having to take measures like this, because it detracts from the racing and the energy that is the first lap. However we can't avoid incidents like this then something must be done.

The following paragraphs holds no accusation, or and no question of the talent on show in those named. Watkins sprint race, the incident was caused by Laurens, a fast driver who I think wouldn't object if I said can sometimes be a little optimistic. However it was a genuine error on cold tyres that caused him to spin and left the chasing pack with nowhere to go.

Likewise at Donington, Patrick is one of the most experienced drivers on the grid, and is exceptionally fast, week in, week out. Once again though, it was a simply cold tyre first lap spin that caused carnage.

Okayama was the feature race, where a clumsy tag from Janick on somebody caused the rear half of the field to be either wiped out or pick up major damage.

Yet the sprint race start at Okayama was superb, and what followed was a brilliant race for all involved... except Fisi. It was a true representation of what we hoped this format would achieve. There was battling up and down the field and as GSRC said, there were times when Bill was talking, and Richard was looking at a totally different battle and vice versa. It was fantastic.

Then we get to Brands Hatch. Where near on 15 cars are out instantly. From 33rd on the grid, I shouldn't be in 14th by the time we get to the pit-straight. Phil is about as experienced as you can get, and Christoph is no idiot. Accidents happen, little incidents aren't an issue but the ramifications of getting it a bit wrong so early on is massive.

If it's purely cold tyres then maybe we should have a lap or so behind the pace car, to give people a chance to prepare themselves.

I felt so bad yesterday I wanted to simply apologise to the viewers and broadcasters for the sprint race mayhem. We are better than that.
 

lokitekki

AOR iRacing FR2.0 Season 3 Champion
Aug 13, 2016
61
51
Quick fix would be great, after pitting it would be still impossible to win but at least people could race and not be upset the next two hours like me after the okayma.
Rolling start would be even higher risk because someone can get hit even before the lights get green.
 

Stevie

Former Super Mod
Premium Member
Aug 26, 2014
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Quick fix would be great, after pitting it would be still impossible to win but at least people could race and not be upset the next two hours like me after the okayma.
Rolling start would be even higher risk because someone can get hit even before the lights get green.
But that's easily penalised for stupid driving. Rather than a multi-car pile up.

If someone can't follow simply instructions and drive at a reduced pace without hitting something then they shouldn't be racing.
 

The Genius

Alex Championship runner-up & 1-time GP2 Champion
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But that's easily penalised for stupid driving. Rather than a multi-car pile up.

If someone can't follow simply instructions and drive at a reduced pace without hitting something then they shouldn't be racing.
I do not think a rolling start would help honestly, single file possibly but not really seing it as a solution either.

Solution - Patience
It is optimistic but true.
 

Hoff

FR2.0 S4 Pre-Season Sprint Race Winner
Premium Member
Jan 29, 2014
673
623
I think it's more the going green that would cause issues with that.

I have absolutely no idea how to do rolling starts. When you can pass, what if another car is slow off the mark etc. It just need some brains to realise what is and isn't a good idea/move.

I literally have hit someone else maybe twice when wheel to wheel that was my fault in racing here and that's not for the want of trying to keep or take a position and the first one was in my very first race.

It's not even about 'not racing' but more keeping it in your fucking pants before blowing your load over everyone's race.... That's disgusting.
 

Silvio

Formula Karter
Dec 18, 2016
53
107
If we have a quick repair, I'm afraid that people take a higher risk than now.
The idea with the rolling start sounds good for me. We can warm up our tyres. Sure, the risk of an incident behind the safetycar is there, but it cannot get much worse.
 

FisiFan91

AOR Founder (on hiatus)
Staff member
AOR Admin
Jan 12, 2014
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Well, for me at least Brands was a huge improvement on the horror show I had in Okayama. I was actually able to drive the car around here without half-spinning off the track at every second corner, so that was good. Qualified in the midfield area as usual, but made a few positions up in the race to finish 12th, after some decent battles.

In the sprint I started 6th and just drove a nice clean race to finish 5th in the end, completely without help from other events that occurred behind :whistle:



Really looking forward to next week as Interlagos is one of my favourites to drive on this game... erm, I mean sim!
 

FisiFan91

AOR Founder (on hiatus)
Staff member
AOR Admin
Jan 12, 2014
17,686
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I seriously hope we can avoid having to take measures like this, because it detracts from the racing and the energy that is the first lap. However we can't avoid incidents like this then something must be done.

The following paragraphs holds no accusation, or and no question of the talent on show in those named. Watkins sprint race, the incident was caused by Laurens, a fast driver who I think wouldn't object if I said can sometimes be a little optimistic. However it was a genuine error on cold tyres that caused him to spin and left the chasing pack with nowhere to go.

Likewise at Donington, Patrick is one of the most experienced drivers on the grid, and is exceptionally fast, week in, week out. Once again though, it was a simply cold tyre first lap spin that caused carnage.

Okayama was the feature race, where a clumsy tag from Janick on somebody caused the rear half of the field to be either wiped out or pick up major damage.

Yet the sprint race start at Okayama was superb, and what followed was a brilliant race for all involved... except Fisi. It was a true representation of what we hoped this format would achieve. There was battling up and down the field and as GSRC said, there were times when Bill was talking, and Richard was looking at a totally different battle and vice versa. It was fantastic.

Then we get to Brands Hatch. Where near on 15 cars are out instantly. From 33rd on the grid, I shouldn't be in 14th by the time we get to the pit-straight. Phil is about as experienced as you can get, and Christoph is no idiot. Accidents happen, little incidents aren't an issue but the ramifications of getting it a bit wrong so early on is massive.

If it's purely cold tyres then maybe we should have a lap or so behind the pace car, to give people a chance to prepare themselves.

I felt so bad yesterday I wanted to simply apologise to the viewers and broadcasters for the sprint race mayhem. We are better than that.
Well said man.

All of the major start incidents this season have been initiated by fast/experienced drivers, so it's not necessarily the reversed grid element that is to blame. Most (well, hopefully all) of the drivers here know how to race cleanly, but usually it's a slight mistake from one or two drivers that causes a big chain reaction.

I'm not sure a rolling start would help too much with the racing itself tbh. Maybe at the first corner or two it will, but after that you'd be just as likely for people to get into positions to attempt overtakes. Yesterday's incident happened at turn 4. Ultimately these things come down to each driver showing patience and not taking risks when the field is majorly bunched up.

A rolling start could maybe help with the cold tyre issue though, since you could use the pace car lap to get some heat into the tyres (although still not fully up to temp I assume). If people are fine with it, I'd be open to giving it a try if things don't improve.

PS: I'm not sure about investigating incidents that haven't been reported to the stewards. It's something we've never had to do previously, so I don't really want to start now. Although will consider it if this carries on. There were what 20 cars involved in the one yesterday? All of which have the opportunity to set up an enquiry if you feel the need is there. But I am pretty sure Phil and Chris (and anyone else who maybe could have done something differently) are already feeling bad enough about it, and I trust them to keep it in mind for the coming races. (PS: If someone does report it, I'll need someone to send me a replay file where half of the cars involved aren't blinking out of existence.)

Yet the sprint race start at Okayama was superb, and what followed was a brilliant race for all involved... except Fisi.
Thanks for the reminder m8 :cautious:
 

Lorrentz

Premium Member
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Jan 13, 2014
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I think all the things that have happened is just really really unlucky....speaking for myself in watkins I wanted to have a major exit out of t1 so i could overtake steve straight away and build up a gap...but the tyres didnt grip :( felt really stupid for that....guess the same counts for patrick as he had it in donington....dont know about okayama what happened there but like stevie said all this isnt caused by bad drivers (except me :D) on a serious note i dont think rolling starts will help in getting it clean....

I was right at the back of the feature race at brands together with some fast drivers..phil...andy...dan...and we managed to do a clean race so it is possible to have quicker guys in the back and still make it a clean start....I think because its the first season we do this and we still get new drivers in every week we all need to get used to it a bit more....

Warning: brasil will be morning so cold tyres again a perfect oppurtunity to show the world we are capable of keeping it clean
 

Hoff

FR2.0 S4 Pre-Season Sprint Race Winner
Premium Member
Jan 29, 2014
673
623
@FisiFan91, are you saying that there is not going to be any punishments handed out as a result of what happened yesterday?

I am sure even Govand 'felt bad'. Please tell me if I am being unreasonable but that is unacceptable and as much as I love this league 99% of people to death that race here, this incident needs looking at and sorting. Obviously not in a witch hunt sort of style but looked at and dealt with appropriately.

I for one did not stick around to take the replay file.
 

FisiFan91

AOR Founder (on hiatus)
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Jan 12, 2014
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@FisiFan91, are you saying that there is not going to be any punishments handed out as a result of what happened yesterday?

I am sure even Govand 'felt bad'. Please tell me if I am being unreasonable but that is unacceptable and as much as I love this league 99% of people to death that race here, this incident needs looking at and sorting. Obviously not in a witch hunt sort of style but looked at and dealt with appropriately.

I for one did not stick around to take the replay file.
Report it then if you feel so strongly... you have every right to. As do everyone else who got caught up. But don't moan at me for not bothering to look into it if you don't bother reporting it. It's the same system as in the F1 leagues which I believe you were part of for a long time.

Stewards Enquiries:
Drivers can call for an investigation into an incident if they feel another driver has broken the racing etiquette rules. This can range from causing a collision to over-aggressive driving.

It is important for those creating an investigation to give as much detail as possible - what lap did the incident take place? Who were the drivers involved etc?

Stewards enquiries can be made here, and must be posted within 24 hours of the race having taken place.

Stewards panel incidents:

If deemed appropriate, drivers may be awarded penalties as a result of their actions. Potential stewards penalties include; a warning or penalty points being awarded to the driver, a time penalty being applied to the driver's race time, a qualifying ban for the following race (usually applied if a time penalty cannot be awarded), a disqualification from the race, or in rare cases a temporary or permanent ban from the Championship - depending on the severity of the driver's indiscretion.

Penalty Points:

In the event of an offending driver retiring from a race that they have caused an incident at, and a higher punishment is deemed unsuitable, penalty points can be awarded.

Multiple penalty points can be awarded at one time depending on the severity of the incident, as determined by the stewards.

If a driver collects 3 penalty points then a penalty deemed appropriate by the stewards will be applied. This will be conducted privately with the driver in question.

A driver's penalty points will expire after the driver has participated in 10 races from the date that the points were awarded.
 

Tekesh

AOR iRacing FR2.0 Season 5 Champion
Staff member
iRacing Coordinator
Aug 11, 2015
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Based on my experience racing the GT3's with rolling start I would say its not the solution. There you end up with people sort of starting at different times because its the leader who decides when the race start. He can go way before the green as long as the pace car is off the track and then you will have people who didn't notice or so and you end up with 5 wide into turn 1.

Its possible that people should practice more on the outlap/cold lap. I see people are very careful during practice when they are on their outlap. What I personally do is I go as hard as I can right from the start. By doing that I can find out exactly how hard I can push on the cold tyres and I get better at it. Also doing laps where you drive off the raceline as if you where side by side with someone. Its really easy to misjudge the speed and braking you need when you are off the normal line that you have practiced for. Just a thought. :)
 

Erti147

AOR Admin
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Jan 14, 2014
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Funny how we hardly ever had pileups with the old format - I think some people get a bit excited by thunderfooting the throttle and lose the rear end

Like Kristian does I floor it out of the pits on Lap 1 of practice for the week. Also I do opposite lines with Fredrik or whatever.

Which by the way on another note, people take Thursday Practice too seriously by going around doing laps by themselves - I like to get a few guys gathered up sometimes and we practice being in a pack.
 

The Genius

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Funny how we hardly ever had pileups with the old format - I think some people get a bit excited by thunderfooting the throttle and lose the rear end

Like Kristian does I floor it out of the pits on Lap 1 of practice for the week. Also I do opposite lines with Fredrik or whatever.

Which by the way on another note, people take Thursday Practice too seriously by going around doing laps by themselves - I like to get a few guys gathered up sometimes and we practice being in a pack.
Agree with Evan. Eventhough me and @StevieSQ have taken a lot of unserious battles between each other in Thursday's practice that actually do help with the knowledge of what the car can do.
 
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Stevie

Former Super Mod
Premium Member
Aug 26, 2014
14,078
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Funny how we hardly ever had pileups with the old format - I think some people get a bit excited by thunderfooting the throttle and lose the rear end

Like Kristian does I floor it out of the pits on Lap 1 of practice for the week. Also I do opposite lines with Fredrik or whatever.

Which by the way on another note, people take Thursday Practice too seriously by going around doing laps by themselves - I like to get a few guys gathered up sometimes and we practice being in a pack.
Agree with Evan. Eventhough me and @StevieSQ have taken a lot of unserious battles between each other in Thursday's practice that actually do help with the knowledge of what the car can do.
Absolutely agree. For the most part we let people get on with the session. But the last 45 minutes or so is titled 'Practice Bantz'. Everyone is welcome to join us, and is encouraged to.
 
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Hoff

FR2.0 S4 Pre-Season Sprint Race Winner
Premium Member
Jan 29, 2014
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Report it then if you feel so strongly... you have every right to. As do everyone else who got caught up. But don't moan at me for not bothering to look into it if you don't bother reporting it. It's the same system as in the F1 leagues which I believe you were part of for a long time.
Went to bed pretty much after the race and have been working today using the little time I had to check the progress of this thread. I know how the system works.
 

FisiFan91

AOR Founder (on hiatus)
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Jan 12, 2014
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Went to bed pretty much after the race and have been working today using the little time I had to check the progress of this thread. I know how the system works.
Fair enough. I just felt your post came across slightly hostile with "oh so you're saying there won't be any punishments".

Ultimately it's not our responsibility to go through the replay and find crashes, it's the drivers' responsibility to report to us any issues that affected them, via the stewards panel. So far this season nobody have bothered doing this however, until now.
 

Gunar Nijenhuis

F1 1st Driver
Sep 2, 2015
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I have to agree with Luke here.

Sure when there is an incident between just 2 drivers it's best to first let them figure it out themselves. A stewards enquiry is a last resort in that case.
But in the case half the field is knocked out in lap 1, stewards should definitely take a look and/or action
 

FisiFan91

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Jan 12, 2014
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But in the case half the field is knocked out in lap 1, stewards should definitely take a look and/or action
If none of those drivers feel bothered enough to make an enquiry, why should we?

Either way, it has been reported now so it will be looked into. Wasn't that hard was it.

As I said there though, it would be very helpful if those of you who saved the replay could have a look and see if you have a version without cars blinking/disappearing.
 
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