PS4 - AOR GT Sport League Season 6 - Super Formula - MAIN DISCUSSION | ApexOnlineRacing.com

PS4 AOR GT Sport League Season 6 - Super Formula - MAIN DISCUSSION


Wobbuffet

F1 Senna Equivalent
May 20, 2016
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Well have got very interesting since I last looked here, plenty of new signups and it seems theres a Volex invasion happening.:LOL:
Ok being serious that's some extremely quick drivers who've joined, and it should produce some great competition for the season especially at the front, I'm really looking forward to watching how this season unfolds now.

But I have to raise a major and important point to you @Delaney with your planned promotion/demotion system after rounds 2, 4 & 7. (I thought you had decided to go for fixed tiers originally)

Anyway bringing in promotion/demotion at certain stages of the season, while I know it has the best intentions it can backfire massively like it pretty much did back in Season 4.

All it takes is one or 2 of the faster drivers from the top tier to either miss one of the opening 2 rounds or have a dsc issue and not only are they likely to get automatically demoted because of it but will be stuck in the bottom tier for the rest of the season, also theres the potential that no one will get promoted or demoted if everyone does show up and I'll explain why.
I'm assuming you'll be using this system for the points?:
Points System (Revised)
P1-P16 (Race Room 1 “Elite”): 52 48 45 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31
P17-P32 (Race Room 2 ‘Pro’): 37 33 30 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16
First off, the league has a commentator for the first time that'll mean that there'll be at most 15 drivers in the top tier (since lobbies can only hold 16 people regardless if one person wants to spectate) so 31 points for 16th can't happen in RR1. Also while the league currently has 27 sign ups - 2 of these are reserves and I know for a fact Hasnain isn't racing for the first half of the season, so it means if there is no more signups then both rooms should be 13 drivers each or 13 in RR1 and 12 in RR2 as Ethan is also a reserve and will miss rounds.

This is key where the issues for promotion/demotion happen, I'll do 2 scenarios for you.
Scenario 1 - Everyone of the signed up drivers (bar Hasnain) race the first 2 rounds, so that's 13 drivers in both RR's finishing and picking up points for those rounds, you would automatically think that there would be a promotion/demotion of some kind but the reality is its highly unlikely. I know in RR1 13th place (last) is guaranteed 34 points whereas the winner of RR2 gets 37 should mean at least one driver gets promoted/demoted but....

The lowest amount of points a driver in RR1 can score for all 4 races in the first 2 rounds would be 136pts, so for a driver in RR2 to have a chance of being promoted after round 2, they would need to score at least 136 which is possible but is highly unlikely, as they would have to get a minimum of 2 wins a 2nd and a 3rd - which is 137pts but when you factor in the likelihood that no-one will finish last for 4 races in a row in RR1 it will up the minimum amount of points that a RR2 driver would require.
And when you factor in the reverse grid sprint races it lowers the chances even more of a RR2 driver scoring enough points in the first 2 rounds.

Which leads to the scenario 2 the one where promotion/demotion backfires badly - lets say one of the fastest drivers has to miss one of the first 2 rounds (or suffers dsc's in both races of a round), now even if they were to win both feature and sprint races and pick up the extra bonus points in the other round they would only score 107 points, but when you compare that to the rest of the RR1 drivers and those from RR2, everyone else in RR1 will be comfortably clear of this driver points wise (30pts+) and if someone finished 5th in RR2 for all 4 races they would score 108pts and be one point ahead of this driver.

So when the tier reset happens after Round 2 they would be based on the rules demoted, now Delaney you may think they will get promoted by the next tier reset (round 4) but that would be impossible if every driver in RR1 races rounds 3 & 4, as even if the demoted driver won all 4 races of rounds 3 & 4 they still wouldn't be able to score enough points to jump above anyone from RR1, as they can only gain a maximum of 18 points on the drivers from RR1 over 2 rounds, but as proven from before they would have to make up a gap of at least 30pts - so it is impossible.

Sure by the final tier reset (after round 7) they will likely do enough to get back into RR1, but there championship hopes are well over even before the start of the final round.

Of course these are only 2 scenarios (and the 2nd one's unlikely) but its a possibility, however the first scenario actually could happen, I will add the points system is better then what it was back in S4 but it doesn't stop/prevent the potential major issues of using promotion/demotion during the season, so currently it still looks like the negatives outweigh the positives on this, just my 2 cents for what its worth.
 

Jackiid15

GP2 Reserve Driver
GT Coordinator
Oct 8, 2018
365
392
From League info thread: “As a baseline we will be using the Race Room 3 or ‘Semi-Pro’ points table if we have only enough sign-ups to fill one room.”

I took that to mean should we be 2 rooms we’d use Pro for RR1 and Semi-Pro for RR2 but now I’m not sure but if it is the case it would mean your maths is off mate as I believe the points difference is lower.
For the record I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with you, just pointing something out.
Nice to see you’re still kicking about though, it’d get quiet without ya :ROFLMAO:
 

Delaney

F1 Senna Equivalent
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Mar 12, 2016
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Thanks for Your 2 cents mate. I do not as such disagree with most of what You write. I would love to find a solution for everything to be 100% fair. I just haven't managed that yet, especially as I (in theory) want everybody to race each other.

People being DSC will NOT be put to the back of the entire field, but be placed as last finisher in their RR. That'll at least solve a part of Your worries.

Real worst case would be, if We only have 10 racing in each room.

I also know that full grids are are better in this respect, but We have to live with what's given. Other than that, I can only say to the "top guy's", don't miss a race! I'm at least offering a theoretical chance of coming back for the final race.

And remember that if You were taking part in fx. F1, You'd be almost just as much lost, if You were to miss a race. Can You see Ferrari coming back, after Mercedes has won the first 4 rounds?

I still have some idea's for improvements, but they'll still take some time to work out and implement.
 

Delaney

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Just to let everyone know that i have a new psn name Communist_Minion if youre wondering where has Mega disappeared
This information should be in this thread mate
 

Delaney

F1 Senna Equivalent
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I've changed Your original sign up post
 

Wobbuffet

F1 Senna Equivalent
May 20, 2016
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People being DSC will NOT be put to the back of the entire field, but be placed as last finisher in their RR. That'll at least solve a part of Your worries.
The only thing I will say on placing DSC drivers as a last finisher could cause a potential contradiction of the points system rules:
- Drivers need to have completed at least 90% of the race distance in order to score full points for their final classified position.
- Drivers who complete between 75% and 90% of the race distance will be eligible to score half points for their final classified position.
- Drivers who complete less than 75% of the race distance will score 0 points, regardless of their classified position.
So if someone dsc's before completing 75% distance they have be given 0pts according to the league rules.

And remember that if You were taking part in fx. F1, You'd be almost just as much lost, if You were to miss a race. Can You see Ferrari coming back, after Mercedes has won the first 4 rounds?
Well yeah of course theres ground lost if you miss a round in a different league eg.F1, but a major difference is you don't get demoted a tier for missing a race and you have the rest of the season to make up the ground lost and most importantly you still race against those with similar pace to yourself.

Real worst case would be, if We only have 10 racing in each room.

I also know that full grids are are better in this respect, but We have to live with what's given. Other than that, I can only say to the "top guy's", don't miss a race! I'm at least offering a theoretical chance of coming back for the final race.

I still have some idea's for improvements, but they'll still take some time to work out and implement.
To say simply top guys don't miss a race is a bit unfair I feel, of course when drivers sign up they should be looking to race every round but equally real life can interfere at short notice at times, just look at last season Ash had to miss round 1, if the league was 2 tiers last season Delaney then he would have had to drop to tier 2 with these current rules and in turn wouldn't have been able to win the championship.

If you really want to put the emphasis on everyone racing every round, then getting rid of the drop week would be a way to do this.

The open tier system is very hard I would say to find a fair balance with 2 tiers and the issues with it only become exacerbated if you ended up with 3 tiers, where a balance would become nigh-on impossible.
Even with the promotion/demotion that alone needs a more in-depth look at, for me its not something that can be done as simply as possible, (which is why it nearly backfired in S4 as we know) unfortunately it needs to be more convoluted so it can avoid a scenario where the fastest drivers will automatically be demoted if they miss one of the early rounds.

While I've always like to see new ideas and do like the original concept of what your doing Delaney, I think I came to the realisation that open tier can't properly work in this kind of league format.

From League info thread: “As a baseline we will be using the Race Room 3 or ‘Semi-Pro’ points table if we have only enough sign-ups to fill one room.”

I took that to mean should we be 2 rooms we’d use Pro for RR1 and Semi-Pro for RR2 but now I’m not sure but if it is the case it would mean your maths is off mate as I believe the points difference is lower.
For the record I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with you, just pointing something out.
Nice to see you’re still kicking about though, it’d get quiet without ya :ROFLMAO:
I took that the other way Jackiid, as in if the league isn't just one room/tier - then the elite & pro points will be used as the points system, that's what my maths were based on however if the league uses the pro & semi pro points for 2 tiers instead that will of course change things a bit as you stated.

And yes I do still keep my eye on whats happening here as while I may not be racing in the league anymore, I'll still try and help point out any major issues/flaws if I see them, as I don't want to see the shít potentially hit the fan here.
 
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Delaney

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I haven’t realised the point of the dsc points that You mention. I’ll have to give that a thought.
And regarding the top guy’s missing a race, hmmm. They can of cause be given the drop round, but that would still give the too few points, to stay up. The drop round could be “done” as a artificial last place. That could at least help a bit.
 

Delaney

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If Wobbie, the rules regarding DSC were to be like that for the lowest tier, that would be reasonably fair for them, right? Then we can implement the same system for the higher tiers, by simply adding points for 16th in the higher tiers. That means adding 16 points for PRO tier and 32 for Elite tier. We’re not going to have 3 tiers in this season and We’re therefore going to be using SemiPRO / PRO rooms.
Could that work You think?
 

Wobbuffet

F1 Senna Equivalent
May 20, 2016
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I haven’t realised the point of the dsc points that You mention. I’ll have to give that a thought.
And regarding the top guy’s missing a race, hmmm. They can of cause be given the drop round, but that would still give the too few points, to stay up. The drop round could be “done” as a artificial last place. That could at least help a bit.
If Wobbie, the rules regarding DSC were to be like that for the lowest tier, that would be reasonably fair for them, right? Then we can implement the same system for the higher tiers, by simply adding points for 16th in the higher tiers. That means adding 16 points for PRO tier and 32 for Elite tier. We’re not going to have 3 tiers in this season and We’re therefore going to be using SemiPRO / PRO rooms.
Could that work You think?
The thing with awarding points for dsc's is that where would you draw the line with the awarding of points when it happens?
I think the real question/issue thats needs to be focused on is:
Does someone who dsc's in the opening laps deserve to get the same amount of points as someone who dsc's at nearly the 75%?
And to take it further if your looking to award full points regardless of when the dsc happens, to me that would be unfair to those who complete the whole race, as just using the pro tier as a points benchmark - 16 points (which would be last - 16th) would only be 4 points less then what 12th gets - 20pts (as the league is looking like having 13 drivers in each tier)

My opinion for what its worth If you stick with the current points rule already in place, then I don't think you can really go wrong as it already provides a clear guideline for everyone and this kind of rule is used in general across other AOR leagues:
  • Drivers need to have completed at least 90% of the race distance in order to score full points for their final classified position.
  • Drivers who complete between 75% and 90% of the race distance will be eligible to score half points for their final classified position.
  • Drivers who complete less than 75% of the race distance will score 0 points, regardless of their classified position.
And because its impossible for anybody to properly dnf (as in lose a wheel from there wagon - or grenade there engine) the only way you can't legitimately normally finish a race in GT Sport is a dsc, that in turn means the points system rule above should mainly/normally applies to when a driver dsc's.

Ultimately Delaney we're all aware that dsc's do unfortunately happen from time to time, but there part of the parcel of league racing, but to reduce the damage a dsc can do in this league's case then matching the amount of tiers to the points system could make life easier I believe.
So using Pro & Semi Pro for 2 tiers instead of Elite & Pro - it won't 100% prevent a driver who does dsc from the top tier getting automatically demoted but as less points are given it should mean slightly less pts for that driver to make up.

Either way its down to yourself and the co-ords to decide what is fair and best for the league for the season, but one thing that I think is worth bearing in mind whatever you decide to do rules wise with this and anything else is you have to stick to for the duration of the season, a repeat of S4 (like the promotion/demotion issues after the opening races) can't be allowed to happen again in my opinion, not now the league is in the spotlight on the official youtube channel.

Back after a 3 year absense, let's see how the season will go
If I could I'd give you a 'good luck' rating but since that isn't a option I'll simply wish you good luck on your return.(y):D
 
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cbckly917

Pro Karter
May 7, 2018
34
31
Unfortunately I will be withdrawing until further notice from the season as my medical issues from last week have only worsened and I cannot perform anywhere near my best at the moment. I apologize for any inconvenience this causes, and I hope to return before the season ends.
 
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Delaney

F1 Senna Equivalent
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Mar 12, 2016
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Unfortunately I will be withdrawing until further notice from the season as my medical issues from last week have only worsened and I cannot perform anywhere near my best at the moment. I apologize for any inconvenience this causes, and I hope to return before the season ends.
I'm really sorry to hear this mate, I just hope that You get it sorted sooner than later. There will of cause be a spot for You when You return. Thanks for the heads up.
 
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Jackiid15

GP2 Reserve Driver
GT Coordinator
Oct 8, 2018
365
392
Unfortunately I will be withdrawing until further notice from the season as my medical issues from last week have only worsened and I cannot perform anywhere near my best at the moment. I apologize for any inconvenience this causes, and I hope to return before the season ends.
Get better mate!
 
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DUCATI_Rossi_46

Junior Karter
Oct 6, 2018
6
12
Hello, I honestly do not know how to start this message, I feel very embarrassed with what happened today on track with Denis. I was furious at the clash we had at fuji in the second race, I know it's not an excuse and I did it very badly, I will stop competing in AOR not to be a danger, and I'm really sorry for throwing the work away of a week and I'll change my behavior on track, I'm sorry
 

Delaney

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Mar 12, 2016
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Hello, I honestly do not know how to start this message, I feel very embarrassed with what happened today on track with Denis. I was furious at the clash we had at fuji in the second race, I know it's not an excuse and I did it very badly, I will stop competing in AOR not to be a danger, and I'm really sorry for throwing the work away of a week and I'll change my behavior on track, I'm sorry
Thank You for Your honest and swiftly responce to the incidents last night. We accept Your excuse and resignation for the ongoing season 6. Should You wish to drive with us in future Seasons, please contact the organisers in advance.
 
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