PC - AOR GT3 Elite - R2: Spa-Francorchamps 15/11/2017 @ 8PM | ApexOnlineRacing.com

PC AOR GT3 Elite - R2: Spa-Francorchamps 15/11/2017 @ 8PM


EVR Morvic

Reigning AOR PC GT Endurance Champion
Staff member
DiRT Coordinator
Feb 25, 2016
3,254
1,703

ROUND 2 - Circuit de Spa Francorchamps

Event Information:
Date: Wednesday 15 November 2017
Lobby opens: 7:45pm (UK time)
● Event starts: 8:00pm (UK time)
● Event format:
- Qualifying: 15 minutes
- Race: 26 Laps (1 formation lap + 25 racing laps)

● Weather Conditions: (Sync-to-race weather progression)
- Quali: Clear
- Race: Clear

● In-game time-of-day information (x2 time progression):
- Qualifying time: 11 May, 14:00
- Race start time: 11 May, 16:00

Manual Rolling Start Information:
Formation Point:




Acceleration Zone:



If you are unsure about the Manual Rolling Start procedure, please read the instructions and watch the explanatory video.

Notices:
● Rules & regulations:
Before you take to the track in the league race, make sure you are fully aware of the rules and regulations of the leagues. As a driver in our leagues, you are required to do your very best to ensure clean and fair racing at all times.

● No-shows: If you are unable to attend the race, please inform the League Coordinator and leave a post in this thread BEFORE the race takes place. Note the rules of participation here.

● Lobby settings: If you are unsure about the rest of the lobby settings that will be used, look here.

● Save your replay: As a means of helping the stewards with any enquiries, all drivers are required to save their race replays and keep it stored for at least one week after the race has taken place. If you are involved in an incident or see something during the race that you feel needs to be investigated, you are free to make a stewards enquiry - however if enquiries are submitted without replay or race footage available, it is likely we can't do anything.

Useful Links:
Results & Standings
League Rules
League Information
Race Calendar


Confirmed no-shows:
 
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Col.McCoy

F1 Multiple Champion
May 26, 2016
784
521
As I saw the 'track abuse' in Round 1... a simple question/discussion point arised in my head.

For example, take Blanchimont. Everybody knows it can be taken flat-out. But as we are humans, or our cars are sometimes less balanced, out of the 25 racing laps, we are probably not able to take it flat-out without at least once or twice running wide on the exit.

So one of the misconceptions about 'not gaining an advantage' is following: we think we lost time, so it must have been a 'disadvantage': WRONG. Because we setup our cars differently, we have different cornerning speeds and tyre wear. If you setup the car 'faster/more unstable' able to run Blanchimont faster.. this works all the times you do not make a mistake. But as soon as you make your FIRST mistake, you already gained advantage! This is the reason why it is so important to 'give' back the time. Yes you lost time during your mistake, but you won during all other rounds.

The actual discussion I would like to start or question I would like to ask is: how many times can you run wide at blanchimont for example? I understand it's difficult to give a number, but I think it's also difficult for a lot of our drivers to 'keep within limits', if they don't really know them. Yes we know you should ALWAYS respect track limits and give the time back. But we also know that there are no penalties for running wide once and 'gaining the advantage in time'. I guess it's talked about a lot and @AndrexUK has his own personal limits before he really starts to look at anybody (btw I'll have some time on my hand, so I'll be happy to help out any races I'm able to join!).

10%? 25 Laps? 3 extensions at Blanchimont WITHOUT able to proof you lifted! And the lifting needs to be done not on the curb (so as not to loose the car) but clearly after going full-throttle again). Would this be a reasonable start?

Edit: btw I understand that no league coordinator can give a 'number'. The post is also more of an insight to new drivers on the league as I saw a lot of comments (in all leagues) about 'not knowing/being aware' of the rule.
 

Yorkie065

SMS Representative
Staff member
PCARS Coordinator
AOR Commentator
Jan 19, 2014
1,548
2,425
The stewards have a set of percentages that are used to determine the type of penalties that are dished out for exceeding track limits without clear indication of there being no advantage gained, or attempting to negate any advantage. Obviously, if track limits are exceeded once or twice in a race and there has been no advantage gained, you're not under threat of receiving a penalty. If you are consistently exceeding the limits though, even if it is once every few laps, you're likely to get noticed and potentially taken to the stewards, where you are reviewed as to how many times you exceeded those limits and whether there was a clear attempt to negate any advantage.

Now what I mean by a clear attempt is fully off throttle, for maybe half a second to a second, or more depending on how far you went out and the potential amount of time you could have gained. This should be done on a straight, away from braking zones and corners. The clearer the attempt to negate an advantage, the easier it is for a steward to spot, and not count that excursion. Certainly don't do it by taking a corner 5mph slower than normal, or lifting into a braking zone, or coming partially off throttle but still being on it. I would say staying off the throttle (completely) on the exit of a corner would be suitable if it is long and clear enough, and would be allowed. Any times you exceed limits and it is clear that an advantage was not gained, either by clearly losing time or by clearly lifting, that moment will not be counted.

The track limits are simple, it's the white lines at the edges of the track, and do not include the curbs. You must have two wheels within these white lines, or at the very least on them, at all times to be within track limits. Don't use the games limits, unless those limits are tighter/stricter than ours for a corner. Unfortunately spa is quite bad for track limits as curbs are big, and there is usually astroturf on the outside of them before reaching grass or gravel, but it doesn't mean you can use those areas. Generally, if you hear both sides of the car touching the curbs, you are very much on or over the limit. If you are ever in doubt, drive a lap in practice, and watch back the replay with trackside and chase cam to see if your lines are within the limts. If they're not, you will need to adjust them so they are within limits.

As for running wide on corners, that is still gaining an advantage. Unless of course it is clear that it was a mistake and you lose time. Going wide on the exit of turns often means you have gotten on the throttle earlier, or taken more speed through and out of the corner than you would if you were driving to stay within the limits. Going wide through blanchimont or eau rouge and keeping your foot in is quicker than lifting to stay within the limits. You are gaining time.

If I were ever going to put a number on the amount of times you can run wide on a corner, or cut it slightly, or just exceeding track limits, it will be 0! That is the number you should aim for over the course of the race, and if you do lift each time that you run wide, as painful as lifting it may be, that number will be 0. This rule isn't there to penalise the faster drivers for being fast! It is there in the aim of fairness for everyone across the league! Everyone has the same track limits. Everyone can easily stay within the track limits, and still be fast. The fairer the racing is for everyone, the better and more enjoyable competing in the league is.

I'd like to ask that the continuation of the discussion is kept civil and subjective, with no name calling and avoiding pointing fingers at members or staff. If you have any questions, of course feel free to post them for people to discuss and get answers on for all drivers in the league to see so everyone is on the same page. If you do wish to discuss something privately, please don't hesitate to contact me or any of the other Project CARS league coordinators as we'd be more than happy to help. We're here for you guys, to help and to make the league as fair and enjoyable for everyone as it can be. Track limits are always a heavily discussed topic with a mixed bag of opinions. Be mindful and respectful, as it would be a shame to see things turn sour between people this early in the season.
 

Raigore

F1 Champion
Apr 19, 2016
748
734
So what laptimes are you guys getting? Fastest I did was a 19.6 but as you know I'm ass at TT. Racepace should be around 20s, so I will just wait for everyone to crash and hope for some points. :D
 

hesto

Pro Karter
Oct 31, 2017
41
45
It's not looking good currently. I think I'm more than 3 seconds behind the fastest guys lol. Haven't reached 20s for racepace yet.
Now I should probably blame the car and say that fast corners simply don't suit the SLS, but I have a feeling Visceral eSports is going to prove me wrong.
 
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Ycoms

Double AOR iRacing GTE Champion
Mar 4, 2015
2,162
1,850
I don't even know how it's possible to lose 2.5 seconds of pace within 4 days. Yes, I'm using pretty much default setup, but that wasn't a problem in TT, the evaluation race (attempts) and the first race, but somehow I'm getting overtaken from people from the Semi-Pro and Amateur League left right and center and I've got no flipping clue what I'm doing wrong. Currently consistently doing high 22s and 23s, and consistently is the most worrying part about it.
 

Col.McCoy

F1 Multiple Champion
May 26, 2016
784
521
I really hope I can be there for this one... but as I have a Spa day tomorrow (yeah I'm 'on vacation') I'm not sure if I'll manage in time.
I havent had any practise but at least did already a lot of online races at Spa with the M6... so pretty comfi with the track. Just hope IF I can join, I can just tweak the small things.. but it will not hold me from joining if I don't have the time.
TBH I can only confirm maybe an hour or 2 prior the race.. so pls count me out for the time. Reserve drivers should go before me if there are any.
At least will finely be there for the rest of the races!
 
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N1kmido

F1 Senna Equivalent
Sep 17, 2016
916
907
@Ycoms Did you practice in offline mode with race fuel or only TT? I´ve experienced that online sessions feel quite different compared to "Private Testing" and also TT feels a lot different than online qualifying with low fuel just like it was in PCars 1.

My Qualifying pace in yesterday´s social was worse than my race pace with a full tank. :pigeon:
The whole qualifying session felt really strange, particularly the rear was all over the place at some corners whereas I understeered through no-name and Pouhon. :dead:

In the actual race session itself everything was back to normal again and the difference to offline testing wasn´t that big anymore. I was absolutely gutted about this "problem" in PCars 1 and yet I´m not sure if it´s a bug or not considering @Yorkie065 who mentioned it last week that track conditions can vary from one session to another even if time + day settings are the same.
 

Ycoms

Double AOR iRacing GTE Champion
Mar 4, 2015
2,162
1,850
@Ycoms Did you practice in offline mode with race fuel or only TT? I´ve experienced that online sessions feel quite different compared to "Private Testing" and also TT feels a lot different than online qualifying with low fuel just like it was in PCars 1.
Those times were from the social yesterday, and on the 2.5 seconds I was referring to Andrex's space compared to last week mainly. :p
 

Col.McCoy

F1 Multiple Champion
May 26, 2016
784
521
IN =D.
Just hope I have enough time to setup the car and check some tyres/pressures/fuel ;-)
 

Zabbzi

Semi-Pro Karter
Aug 9, 2016
21
7
Not very happy with the current game as it stands. I feel absolutely cheated for what was my most anticipated race. I had worked on my consistency for some time and felt very comfortable with race pace. A bit of damage at the start (pure racing incident not a problem) hindered my straight line even more than usual. 150mph was a bit of a struggle but I felt my pace was still good enough for points. When I went to pit for Aero damage only, the game would not bring the pitcrew out after Requesting Pit Stop numerous times, forcing a retirement.

These bugs are very tiring, I fear the game is not currently reliable to continue league racing. Going to cool off before I do anything brash, but very very disappointed with the overall state of the game again.
 
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mikkisbee

Premium Member
Premium Member
Oct 29, 2017
54
42
Just a race to forget for me....:D

Was struggling the whole day with the setup and was not at all happy. Being already one of the slow-end drivers in this tier it was not ideal. On race start I got 15 aero damage to front when the pack just literally stopped to 1st corner and I was on inside line. Then rest of the race 1-2 seconds off my usual race pace on my own the whole time. Maybe should have pitted for repairs on beginning but idk if it would have made much of a difference... Then to top it all in the last lap I let the leaders pass by going out from the track, clipped the grass and span to wall... Just very very dissapointed to myself at the moment...

Congrats to @Vernux for the win! Going to watch the stream replay now. :)
 

Mazy CZ

F1 Senna Equivalent
Jan 14, 2014
1,423
1,666
@GodfatherofShift sorry for the incident at Bus stop in the opening laps, but I was well alongside you on the inside and you kept closing the door more and more squeezing me on the grass and resulted in your spin.
I haven't waited as in my opinion I deserved to have room there.

Overall, didn't thought I can get top 10 (P10) finish when seeing that pole time in 16's (I mean really, did you guys in front bought some diamond grippy version of the game? :D)
The start was OK, I lost like 3 places just in "no name" corner and then had an incident with @GodfatherofShift into bus-stop. After that, I was behind @Xenon91 in his SLS and I always closed up right on his bumper rin S2, but then he pulled away on straight. Was so frustrating. Then @AndrexUK was behind aswell and from that point we had great racing between all 3 of us. Once Klassens made some error in Bust stop which caught me up so @AndrexUK overtook me and had ago at Klassesns. He overtook him and I was able to follow lap later aswell. Then Klassens dropped back so It was just me and @AndrexUK Almost all 15 laps we were in 1sec. Did some side by side action and overall I enjoyed that he was struggling a bit with car so we were on the same pace. Thanks ;)

So far, my car feels always the same during my practice offline sessions to online practice or actual race. No major bugs in ffb or something else, so it is sad to see that others are being affected by those :(

Also sad to see my teammate @Hideaki go but I understand and no worries.
 
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Col.McCoy

F1 Multiple Champion
May 26, 2016
784
521
So as I this night just to get some track on time again and finally be able to race the GT3 car in a competitive field.... OMG I need to work on this car! Already heard that the pace was a bit better than mine and just tried out the TT setup of @AndrexUK which does not suit my driving style but is still fast. Compared it with my own setup and found not so much difference, so I decided to tweak it just a bit and race with that.
Than the first corner happened, watched the replay and I guess it's pretty clear that was never going to work.. unfortunately so many got aero damage from it:
As for the race itself, decided to stay out with the damage and have some nice laps. Pace was 1-2 seconds slower easily as I normally did with my own setup (so whether it was the damage or just me not confident with the setup as well, i don't know).
Good thing of the night was that I was able to learn more of the car on this track.. tested out some different lines and shifting behaviour which made it a 'succesfull' night.
ohh yeah and not to forget: damn @Yorkie065 what a pace! Would love to have some insight in the setup of the car to see where the difference lay :)
Congrats again to @Vernux!
 
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rillo7105

1-time AOR PC GT3 Pro Champion
Premium Member
Jun 21, 2016
322
238
I don't even know how it's possible to lose 2.5 seconds of pace within 4 days. Yes, I'm using pretty much default setup, but that wasn't a problem in TT, the evaluation race (attempts) and the first race, but somehow I'm getting overtaken from people from the Semi-Pro and Amateur League left right and center and I've got no flipping clue what I'm doing wrong. Currently consistently doing high 22s and 23s, and consistently is the most worrying part about it.
Don't think the track suited Porsche that well. You seemed to lack power or too much aero
 
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