PC - AOR GT3 Elite - R3: Autodromo do Algarve 22/11/2017 @ 8PM | ApexOnlineRacing.com

PC AOR GT3 Elite - R3: Autodromo do Algarve 22/11/2017 @ 8PM


AndrexUK

2 times PC Project Cars 2 Champion
Staff member
PCARS Coordinator
AC Coordinator
May 6, 2015
5,392
5,291
Pretty simple IMO.
If only...
Are you aware of how long it takes to review just 1 driver per race?
I would easily say on average, you are look at between 45mins to 1 hour. (And I've done it a LOT!)
If we have 5 ppl doing this, for 26 drivers, that's about 5 drivers each, which is about 4 - 5 hours each!
Know anyone willing to give up that amount of time each week, just watching replay's and taking screenshots for hours on end, each week...?

Personally, I think it's the duty of the Cods to do it (Which is why I have been doing it...) but again, this is forcing hours and hours of work on the Cods - and it's clear that none of them are prepared to invest that time in trying to tidy up the league.
because when I actively didn't do it, no one else did it instead of me!

To be honest, I'm close to calling it a day at AOR (which is very hard for me to say!), because it's just toxic, and I constantly feel it's Me against many in a crusade to clean up the league.
 
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Ironik

F1 Senna Equivalent
Jul 20, 2016
1,267
705
If only...
Are you aware of how long it takes to review just 1 driver per race?
I would easily say on average, you are look at between 45mins to 1 hour. (And I've done it a LOT!)
If we have 5 ppl doing this, for 26 drivers, that's about 5 drivers each, which is about 4 - 5 hours each!
Know anyone willing to give up that amount of time each week, just watching replay's and taking screenshots for hours on end, each week...?

Personally, I think it's the duty of the Cods to do it (Which is why I have been doing it...) but again, this is forcing hours and hours of work on the Cods - and it's clear that none of them are prepared to invest that time in trying to tidy up the league.
because when I actively didn't do it, no one else did it instead of me!

To be honest, I'm close to calling it a day at AOR (which is very hard for me to say!), because it's just toxic, and I constantly feel it's Me against many in a crusade to clean up the league.
I know that very well, I did it during two seasons (~6 months long, IIRC). ;)
You don't need to control every drivers. You just pick three of them randomly (if you have three backup stewards).
Maybe @King-kodiak and @FisiFan91 could even hint on the drivers to control, I don't know.
The time spent is down to 1 hour by steward.

I'm volonteer for that if you want, just give me the replay and I'll pick a random driver to control.
 
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Col.McCoy

F1 Multiple Champion
May 26, 2016
755
499
Exactly @Ironik!! @King-kodiak please help us out here!
I was just enjoying my diner and thought to have a look at the replay.
Especially with @Vernux saying the guys around him, I knew where to look.

After just half an hour, I feel justified to start an inquiry for James, Yoohan, (probably, EDIT: for sure) WarnTyre.
I looked at only 5 people so far, with a good view to another 3. This means 3 people of 8 are extending over 10 times in just about half a race (and I only looked about 10/15 laps each), so make that max 1 quarter of a race.

Putting in the inquiries is gonna be a lot of more work.. and TBH I don't understand why @Vernux just lets this happen in front of him and say NOTHING during the race. Yes everybody is responsible, not only the cutter himself. I just see now that the overtake on you for P1 starts with an extension in Turn 1. LAP 18 of the and that makes it 10 extensions for Popsu at T1... (I yes I feel confident enough to write names as I don't hear/see any lifting off -> gaps decreasing afterwards)

On a other hand, I have to say what I saw from somebody at the social race: great driving in the official one! It's not that hard..
 
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Ironik

F1 Senna Equivalent
Jul 20, 2016
1,267
705
I undestand the point of view of @Vernux , I personnaly don't like to start an inquiry.
That plus the fact that it's time consuming and that Elite drivers prefer to train rather than watch replays :D

That's why outsiders could be the solution for this. You take at least one "cutting steward" by league = 3.
You upload the replay somewhere and each steward take 1 driver. Either randomly or hinted by the streamers.
The problem with the stream is that you always see the top 3 but never the back of the field and this is not really fair.
If every COD in the Elite league take another one, that's 6 random control.

I think this could work. ;)
 

Vernux

AOR PC GT3 Elite S8 Champion
Dec 16, 2016
92
98
Sry dude. As i said i wanted to report 1-2 dudes, but when i saw top guys who had amazing pace compare to quali were all cutting is just too much. Making ss and thread about 5-6 driver (as andrex said it takes 5-6 hours for a newbie like me for sure). Feel free to report them but i dont have that much time sry ^^
[DOUBLEPOST=1511543979][/DOUBLEPOST]We all agreed to the rules,so if they cant keep them to it what should we do? Few guys already got penaltys and they still doing it :/ sry for doublepost
 

Col.McCoy

F1 Multiple Champion
May 26, 2016
755
499
Time frame for posting stewards enquiries:
Note that there is a time limit of 2 days after the race has run to make a stewards enquiry for an incident you have been involved in or witnessed during the race. if any new rule violations come to light through videos released after this time, it is still possible to report this, but only if this violation is something that was not visible to the other driver(s) in the race at the time it happened.

So what now? I have about 5 people out of the TOP 7 (this is embarrasing) where I have over more than 15 extensions per driver (I stopped watching after that), of which at least over 10 in 1 single corner or over 7 in at least 2 single corners.
As I did not witness the situation in the race, but today when I started watching the replay, I have a hard time putting 5 inquiries in the next 3 hours??? Or do 4 people want to help out to take 1 single person!

EDIT: actually, I would think that if somebody reports himself he will NOT get disqualified and just a time penalty... maybe this helps ;-)?
 

Popsu

S3 AOR PC Endurance LMP Champion
Nov 29, 2016
28
14
@Col.McCoy Most extend didn't gave me nothing cause they were a aftermath of me losing control of the car, or overdriving it. None of them were intended...
 

Jeff[NL]

Premium Member
Premium Member
Sep 15, 2016
365
323
What about anonymous inquiry ? Now everyone can see and read everything. But what if drivers anonymously can report other drivers ? I was in a asetto corsa league that was run that way and i have to say that it was pretty good.
 

Ironik

F1 Senna Equivalent
Jul 20, 2016
1,267
705
What about anonymous inquiry ? Now everyone can see and read everything. But what if drivers anonymously can report other drivers ? I was in a asetto corsa league that was run that way and i have to say that it was pretty good.
I think that anonymity is only a part of the problem.
I mean, if there is a crash between two cars, it's easy to guess who is the author of the inquiry. :p
Furthermore, like said Vernux, he ain't got time for that. ^^
 

Col.McCoy

F1 Multiple Champion
May 26, 2016
755
499
I understand you on one hand Jeff and maybe it's that I passed the 30 years of age that my first reaction is: aren't we grown ups?
[DOUBLEPOST=1511549810][/DOUBLEPOST]@Popsu you drove very very clean for the rest of the lap! Thus I'm not saying that you deliberatily extended and gained an andvantage... but my question to you, if you review your race and only the 1st corner extensions (for whatever reason). Did you lift off at least half of them?

I watched a lot of replay footage of the top 10 and I started to feel sorry for the guys who were trying to stick to the track limit and than see the guy in front of you extend and just keep the pedal to the metal... this is very frustrating, very!
 

Jeff[NL]

Premium Member
Premium Member
Sep 15, 2016
365
323
I understand you on one hand Jeff and maybe it's that I passed the 30 years of age that my first reaction is: aren't we grown ups?
[DOUBLEPOST=1511549810][/DOUBLEPOST]@Popsu you drove very very clean for the rest of the lap! Thus I'm not saying that you deliberatily extended and gained an andvantage... but my question to you, if you review your race and only the 1st corner extensions (for whatever reason). Did you lift off at least half of them?
hahah i am 34 so its not in the age :p
i am running a Ford workshop (20 men) now for a couple of years and age is just a number. There are people from 50 60 years old and you expect some adult decisions etc hahah forget it !!
Why i opt this anomynous is it will give staff more free time and spread it all out more. Drivers do not have to be political correct and such. Even if there was a crash well it happened anyway so anonymous does not count heavy on that it think.
 

Manx57

F1 Race Winner
Mar 9, 2016
633
518
This is a hornets nest for sure, I have been banging on about this for a long time. I will admit I have run a white line, but I have never run one intentionally only when loosing control and as such back off. Cutting inside corners I have never done there is just no defence I believe for that one. 9 times out of 10 a driver knows full well what he is doing so knows when he is going to drift wide and as such can lift off? The problem lies in the fact a lot of drivers don't lift, no ones watching right? wrong there is always someone watching. Our last semi pro race I followed a couple of guys who were quite happy to let the car run wide and cut across the inside of corners, which makes my blood boil. It is just dishonest I bust my gut trying to stay on track and I know of a few friends who no longer race because of this very issue. The answer in the short term must be to review replays and come down hard on offenders until "they" get the message.
 
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Def

Moderator
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Moderator
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Jun 3, 2016
5,186
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Track limits abuse to the point a cod wants to call it quit. Unbelievable.. The message is clear already, I posted the link to the notice by AOR admin about abuse that already occurred in previous seasons.

It makes people sick. A radical solution would be to deny access to current and future seasons to the regular wrongdoers. If it's what it takes to get rid of the problem, I'll gladly go this way. Obviously we don't want to kick out the guys who try their best to keep it between the lines, rather the guys who keep doing it even after being told against.
 

Col.McCoy

F1 Multiple Champion
May 26, 2016
755
499
So that's me being done with the inquiries.
@Popsu, @Yoohan24, @Jamoobaldy, @SBart_uk and @WarnTyre. First of all I would like to apologize if any of the inquiries are wrongly put towards a driver. Second this was not a personal attack on you guys... if we want to be an example for this community and especially in the eyes of lower leagues we need to step up our game. Third, if anybody thinks I don't have a life, I unfortunately do, but luckily today my gf is away on a few days trip and I have a lot of bottles of whiskey left standing.... so it was (NOT) a pleasure to review all the footage but at least I could drink away the pain that comes with it ;-)
 

hesto

Pro Karter
Oct 31, 2017
41
45
Damn. After @Col.McCoy put in all this work I decided to check my own replay as well. I thought I left the track maybe around 6 times during the race but turns out it was 20 times. In more than half of these instances I thought I would still be on the white line but was actually slightly beside it.
My bad on not properly checking this during training. I am just as guilty as some of the previously mentioned drivers.
 

Veloce Jaaames

Formula 4 Reserve Driver
Jan 30, 2016
97
42
Yes I was also guilty a few times but the same as Popsu, a lot of the times were mistakes as the tyres were degrading so badly which actually lost me time. I agree though! Will focus very hard on that for Brands[emoji106]

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
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Col.McCoy

F1 Multiple Champion
May 26, 2016
755
499
@hesto thanks for taking the opportunity to learn!
I sincerely hope my inquiries will not mess up the end result (too much). But if we don't start here, it will never get better.
For example I did not put in an inquiry for Perry, as he was not as consequent as the other drivers. This does not mean he did not drive off track as well without lifting ofcourse ;-)... unfortunately everybody does it I think, which is obvious when you think you lost time anyway. And as you find out, you think you are on the white line, but sometimes you are 'just' not. Algarve was a special circuit where a lot of corners were off track with just 3 wheels instead of 4 btw ;-). But in my POV if you go off with the 2 left tyres and the front right, than the front right comes back but the rear right is off, than this is 'all 4 tyres' went off during the maneuver.
 
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Jeff[NL]

Premium Member
Premium Member
Sep 15, 2016
365
323
@Jamoobaldy ...its always good to look at your own driving lines. Now is brands not a track that extending cutting is big there so i dont expect to much problems but algarve was a very hard track regarding the limits.

Degrading or not there is no excuse for a certain amount of exeeding the limits. If you notice you ran wide many times look back and ask yourself did you lift adapt adjust ? If not then it is as bad as all the other drivers who are mentioned.
 

Veloce Jaaames

Formula 4 Reserve Driver
Jan 30, 2016
97
42
I'm talking about when I oversteered wide and lost time on the exit, which is completely different to understeering wide and carrying the speed. So yes it is an excuse, the times I did carry the speed were my fault, yes, but the majority of times were detrimental to my race as well.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 

Jeff[NL]

Premium Member
Premium Member
Sep 15, 2016
365
323
Well as far as i know..understeer oversteer.. No time advantage those are not the things staff are sensible for. If you do it over and over again it is your racing line no matter what you do in that corner it is exceeding.

Oh btw this discussion is just to clarify for all of us maybe i am wrong but this is how i see it and i learned from last seasons on AOR.