PC - AOR GT3 S10 - PC Tier 2 - Round 5 - Donington Park GP - 18.7.18 @8PM UK time | ApexOnlineRacing.com

PC AOR GT3 S10 - PC Tier 2 - Round 5 - Donington Park GP - 18.7.18 @8PM UK time


S4Howie

GP2 Reserve Driver
Nov 1, 2017
367
265


ROUND 5 - Donington Park GP

Event Information:
Date: Wednesday July 18th 2018
Lobby opens: 7:45pm (UK time)
● Event starts: 8:00pm (UK time)
● Event format:
- Qualifying: 10 minutes
- Race: 41 laps (1+40)

● Weather Conditions:
For weather conditions and progression, please visit the Weather Centre.

● In-game time-of-day information:
- Qualifying time: 24 June 2018 - 13:00 (PM)
- Race start time: 24 June 2018 - 14:00 (PM)

Manual Rolling Start Information:
Formation Point:


Acceleration Zone:


If you are unsure about the Manual Rolling Start procedure, please read the instructions and watch the explanatory video.

Notices:
● Rules & regulations:
Before you take to the track in the league race, make sure you are fully aware of the rules and regulations of the leagues. As a driver in our leagues, you are required to do your very best to ensure clean and fair racing at all times.
● No-shows: If you are unable to attend the race, please inform the League Coordinator and leave a post in this thread BEFORE the race takes place. Note the rules of participation here.
● Lobby settings: If you are unsure about the rest of the lobby settings that will be used, look here.
● Save your replay: As a means of helping the stewards with any enquiries, all drivers are required to save their race replays and keep it stored for at least one week after the race has taken place. If you are involved in an incident or see something during the race that you feel needs to be investigated, you are free to make a stewards enquiry - however if enquiries are submitted without replay or race footage available, it is likely we can't do anything.

Useful Links:
● League Rules
● League Information
● Race Calendar




Informed No Show:
@mikkisbee
 
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Mattster

GP2 Test Driver
Nov 18, 2016
307
155
Im posting this to express my disappointment of stewards. Is a no excuse lag is not a excuse I had (shutter all race caused the upd protocol but dint hit anybody) for this incidents and stewards left them whit no further action. The all stewards story is a total joke n it depending entirely who is doing the inquiries. Even involved say that should be penalty at least swap of positions.

Bonus video whit stewards decision from last tc season. The excuse is my wheels lock (total joke)
 

Nagrom

Premium Member
Premium Member
Feb 26, 2018
513
446
1st case: https://apexonlineracing.com/community/threads/gt3-tier-2-r3-incident-on-the-last-lap.35998/
Did you see his video ? He is clearly not hitting you in his video, and he is not even close to hitting you. So yeah, it was caused by lag, it would be unfair to punish him.

2nd case : https://apexonlineracing.com/community/threads/tc-elite-round-2-oulton-park-r2-pushing-off-track.34632/
Everyone slowed down unexpectedly because of the incident caused by VSR Noah, tudesertpac couldn't react in time and hit you. Stewards decided that he couldn't avoid the crash, which was caused by Noah (who was penalized for this).
 

Lindholdt

Premium Member
Premium Member
Apr 26, 2018
320
298
@Mattster Arent you overreacting just a tiny bit here? I mean, I can understand that you disagree with the stewards, thats totally up to you and your opinion. But why not just take it up with them, instead og posting the incident here, with some semi-random incident thats months old?
Again, you are totally entitetled to your opinion, I just dont understand why you express it here and how you do it. Do you want to try and start an AOR revolution against the stewards panel, or whats the point? ??
 
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Mattster

GP2 Test Driver
Nov 18, 2016
307
155
On my video he hit me I I can tell you that it was on force feedback on my wheel.
About other video have you drive on this track whit tc in rain ? He was too aggressive and lock up I slow down late in the apex it was not something emergency. About Noah the penalty was another joke of the stewards 5 or 10 sec for this ? And they give it bcs he hit ironic otherwise will be no further actions as always

I saw that post in my inquiry whit shaggys opinion


Anyway he apologies but dint give back position or something. I don’t care about the points but the racing should be fair.
 

TicklishPicklewickle

Project CARS Coordinator
Staff member
PCARS Coordinator
Premium Member
Oct 23, 2016
4,552
2,767
The all stewards story is a total joke n it depending entirely who is doing the inquiries.
Oh boy you are so wrong in that statement right there. The decision is always made by a majority vote and we are very careful to make sure that as many stewards as possible gets their opinion out on the incident. Another point to make is that we set a goal of closing most of the enquiries we get a couple days after they've been submitted which means we can't wait for every single stewards to put forward a vote for every single enquiry, that'd simply be too time consuming and then we would have complaints from the drivers that we are not closing enquiries fast enough :p
Without revealing too much I can safely say that this decision was made between pretty much all stewards since it was a lag incident and pretty simple to close. We never punish anyone for lag/de-sync since it's just impossible how it can be their fault. I understand your great frustration with this incident, but there is absolutely no way that this could be @ShaggyDan's fault. This is an issue with the game and with many other racing games that is just part of the deal you get in online racing.

Regarding the reference to the TC league incident, you are clearly not seeing this from @Tudesertpac's side of things. I would like to see you react fast enough to avoid an incident in that situation ;) Anyways, bringing up something that old into this seems pointless imo and it's taken completely out of context. In fact, I'm not sure where you want to go with it? If you're trying to compare that old incident with the new one, then I can already tell you that those are 2 completely different situations and they shouldn't be compared.

Anyways, I would like you to refrain from using this particular thread for complaining to the stewards. If you have any further comments, do it via PM to me or @S4Howie please.
 
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Mattster

GP2 Test Driver
Nov 18, 2016
307
155
Is not a lag is a dive bomb. I had problem whit the upd and had shutter all race changing gears early bcs of that but I was careful not to hit someone not doing dive bombs and than excuse whit lag. From now on I will drive very aggressive and doing dive bombs all the time bcs in AOR are no rules and steward panel is a gimmick made to serve only few people interest
 

Shooter80

Assetto Corsa Coordinator
Staff member
AC Coordinator
Premium Member
Dec 23, 2017
1,071
1,173
If you had lag because you choose to leave the UDP protocol running, even though you know it causes it, then the accident at your end, was caused by lag at your end, and it seems to me that you only have yourself to blame and not Dan.

Probably best to disable UDP next time.
 

Deerladog

Assetto Corsa Coordinator
Staff member
AC Coordinator
Premium Member
AOR Commentator
Aug 24, 2017
752
409
It should also go without saying that even if Dan maliciously divebombed you and hit you as a result, which we've established he didn't, that is still no excuse to go doing it yourself. Even if it is just an idle threat with the sole purpose of giving the stewards a hard time.

Intentionally divebombing everyone with a clear disregard for rules sounds like a solid way to get blacklisted, but maybe thats just me.
 

ShaggyDan

Formula Karter
Feb 16, 2018
67
82
@Mattster iv already told you i was sorry despite me having no reason to since i did nothing wrong other then a bit of an agressive move, i knew it was my last chance to get the position before the line, and since you guys keep using this quote out of context heres your context..

My buddy and I went on to talk about multiple other similar lag incidents that happened in his tier and ours at indy seemed like it was an extra laggy track, I know @rciq and @Gosku got a very similar crash in turn 1 cuz of lag aswell, which was submitted to the stewards and ended in the exact same result.

Its an unfortunate reality of online racing, and I'm glad the stewards recognize that. at any rate what happens in the stewards room should stay in the stewards room....

ANYWAYS, I honestly was coming into this race thinking i hate this track for all the awkward off camber exits, but once i got a setup thats actually working for me I'm actually enjoying this track like i did when i first started playing this game. I'm also glad that were having a repeat of zolder weather conditions from last season, but also like zolder people better be careful on the chicane as its very easy to cut there without the game telling you you did.
 
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DoR

Formula 4 2nd Driver
May 11, 2018
112
93
Just to weigh in with some plausible explanation..

It looks like the best case scenario for ping between Bulgaria and Canada is ~120ms- I'd suggest it's likely higher which won't help with the game being synced between @Mattster and @ShaggyDan.

As the vid from shaggydan's POV didn't show any 'teleporting' of mattster I don't think it was a lag spike, but just a general lack of the game being synced perfectly, caused by poor latency.

I'd suggest there's little you two can do and it'll just be something to be aware of when making stewards enquiries going forward.
 

Mattster

GP2 Test Driver
Nov 18, 2016
307
155
The latency between us dosent matter bcs we sync UK or Germany (bcs of the host) im not living in Bulgaria right now from me to UK or DE ping is around 30-40ms. Maybe Project cars 2 don’t sync correctly but the point is that from the videos everybody can see that he miss his braking point or try to do dive bomb.
Even if is lag or problem whit sync the stewards say that they cant blame shaggy for that but it we swap positions he don’t lose anything bcs he will not overtake whitout the lag /sync incident.
From what I see this is not steward pane is friendlist panel.
 

GIXXERosg

AOR PC GT3 S12 T4 Champion
Staff member
AC Coordinator
Premium Member
Jul 9, 2016
1,801
1,117
@Mattster I'm a T5 guy and helping out T5 formally named AM... your constant effort and obsession on these things 100% rings a bell. I am now a Coordinator but it doesn't mean I can't comment, nor remember S9.

You joined Dan's discord at the time, basically to complain. I have now removed you from Dan's discord. There is zero conflict of interest if you are not happy, MY INTEREST is moving T5 up to T1.
 

poisike78

AOR PCars PC Ginetta GT5 S1 T2 Champion
Feb 28, 2018
2,182
1,026
The latency between us dosent matter bcs we sync UK or Germany (bcs of the host) im not living in Bulgaria right now from me to UK or DE ping is around 30-40ms. Maybe Project cars 2 don’t sync correctly but the point is that from the videos everybody can see that he miss his braking point or try to do dive bomb.
Even if is lag or problem whit sync the stewards say that they cant blame shaggy for that but it we swap positions he don’t lose anything bcs he will not overtake whitout the lag /sync incident.
From what I see this is not steward pane is friendlist panel.
You are wrong at least with two facts.

Firstly, PC2 is using P2P connections when the lobby is set up from within the game (we use that method), so the host location doesn't matter. Every client talks to every client directly, so your ping to everywhere matters.
Some time ago I had a similar lag incident on a straight. I was driving on a long straight, perfectly straight and @AndrexUK hit me from behind and then he accused me for doing stupid things on a straight. When we compared our replays, it turned out that he didn't see the first contact with me that caused my car to loose traction and move to the right and hit him. So he was actually overtaking me normally but my game decided that he hit me from behind. My ping to UK is between 30-40ms. These things happen, there is not much we can do about that.

Secondly, why do You think that Stewards are friendly? From what I have seen, they seem to give penalties for the smallest mistakes if the rules require it. I also really doubt they are even looking at who is in the receiving end, it doesn't matter. Never seen anyone, not even a cod getting a smaller penalty then the rules require. If anything, then I would say they are more strict than they should be.

I can agree with one thing though. Youtubers seem to get away with some things, but that's not because stewards look at them differently, it's because racers don't want to make inquiries about them for some reason. You did and that's totally fine.
 

DoR

Formula 4 2nd Driver
May 11, 2018
112
93
The latency between us dosent matter bcs we sync UK or Germany (bcs of the host) im not living in Bulgaria right now from me to UK or DE ping is around 30-40ms. Maybe Project cars 2 don’t sync correctly but the point is that from the videos everybody can see that he miss his braking point or try to do dive bomb.
Even if is lag or problem whit sync the stewards say that they cant blame shaggy for that but it we swap positions he don’t lose anything bcs he will not overtake whitout the lag /sync incident.
From what I see this is not steward pane is friendlist panel.
@Mattster - it does matter as data still has to reach the host from both racers.

Canada to UK or DE host is at least 100ms and then from the host to wherever you are would be another 30-40ms as you say. 130 to 140ms would still be conservative and it's likely a higher latency between you two.

The bottom line here is that game sync won't be perfect and this is no fault of either racer.

It's also very clear that @ShaggyDan made no contact with you from his POV and I don't see it being a dive bomb either- I think your statement that 'everyone' would see it as a dive bombomb is incorrect, otherwise that would include the stewards, who've ruled against your assessment. Conflating evidence right there.

I feel sorry for you that you feel everyone is against you, but as I don't know shaggydan I can give you a neutral opinion, hopefully you can see through the red mist to see that.
 

AndrexUK

2 times PC Project Cars 2 Champion
Staff member
AC Coordinator
May 6, 2015
5,544
5,418
The all stewards story is a total joke n it depending entirely who is doing the inquiries.
I'd love to let you see a typical steward inquiry just to show you what actually happens!
I'll see if I can speak to Fisi or someone to allow me to quote the comments of a an inquiry!

@FisiFan91 Would you be ok with me posting a typical (Probably the above mentioned Touring Car one) inquiry as an example of what really goes on?
We can blank out the steward names, or I can just copy & paste the transcript...
 
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AndrexUK

2 times PC Project Cars 2 Champion
Staff member
AC Coordinator
May 6, 2015
5,544
5,418
For the record, 7 Stewards commented on that Touring Car League inquiry!
 

Mattster

GP2 Test Driver
Nov 18, 2016
307
155
From what i red stewards are look only the video of shaggy bcs on my he hit me , they look incident only from one prospective and bcs is more easy they give no further action. This is promoting unfair and aggressive driving if this was happen to me i will wait and give back the position. But i guess is better not to care and drive has you want.

@GIXXERosg what i you talking about? i dint write even a word in shaggys chanel i join bcs friend tell me that i can find info about pc2 tuner software.
 
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rciq

Formula Karter
Dec 21, 2017
66
55
The lag is real. I took out @Gosku and didn't even know until he posted his vid. At the time of incident I thought maybe he lost control of car (there was never any contact on my view) so I just went on. I totally understand why @ShaggyDan did the same. Bottom line is, he's playing the game on his computer. On his computer he didn't do anything wrong. How could it be his fault? As usual I'd blame Ian Bell, if anyone at all;P