AOR GT3 S14 - Feedback Thread | ApexOnlineRacing.com

AOR GT3 S14 - Feedback Thread


Chickano

PS4 GT3 S9 AM Champion
Jan 30, 2018
424
536
Ok @Mhill you've written alot there and maybe this thread isn't the right place for some of it, but you brought us in this direction... Despite quoting me, I think you’re responding to things I didn’t actually write or refer to.

my original post above is feedback to the cods about the league and what I think about the drop week based on my experience of it - which the OP asks me for . I wrote about my experience of the drop week, not why I deserved the championship , or you didn’t , or vice Versa. Nothing I wrote was aimed at you. I didn't mention you in it save praising you, nor did I bring anyone else into it.

I never suggested nor would I have, that you were undeserving of the win or mention reasons other than the drop week as to why I think I should have won. Your response tells me that you think I did- I didn’t . I don’t have a problem you winning the championship, I’m happy for you, it was a hard fought season and you’re a decent bloke, but I have an issue with the rules that dictated how I lost it - and I was asked to give these. Are you clear about that ? And I sure as shi t didn’t ask for rules to be changed after the season ended so I would get the title either as you suggested - and imo you’re out of order for putting those words in my mouth and implying that’s what I wanted.

perhaps you took my post personally, Can I reiterate that I didn’t once bring you into my post above, but I tried to speak about the rules. Was I emotional? Yes. But I tried to make some light of it by referring to Maranello and fernando alonso’s meme ‘Yoke’. Did I point out specifics or undermine your performance At all in the season ? No. But you feel the need to do this to me? Until now - after the race in chat and in the threads I have only ever congratulated you and spoke of how well you drove and how tight it was. We both deserved to win mate. It’s the manner of how I lost via drop week that I have issue with not that you won. I don’t like it , nor do I want to win a league that way either in future, and that’s not aimed at you. had I finished ahead of you at spa, i would have had the most points regardless of a drop week being applied or not. That same point didn’t apply to you. We knew the scenario yes- but the underlying points tally and permutations of it were not the same for both of us and I’ve spoken in lobbies about my dislike of the rule long before the season ended or anyone knew where the title would go.

i could have cited Other leagues, like when someone won a championship without ever winning a race. By your logic they didn’t deserve that title even though they got the most points ? I could cite individual moments from our championship to prove a point like you have, such as Bugatti, where my race was compromised by a damaged car when someone drove into me, despite which i might add, I didn’t look for a stewards enquiry to have them penalised out of sportsmanship, or hockenheim, or spa, where I was taken out on both occasions - and in those 3 scenarios lies your 7-3 stat. Bar 2 of those 3 incidents it’s 5/5 mate but that doesn’t matter to me. My post isn’t about nit picking selective moments from the season. No matter how you frame it, The league is about points and that’s what the drop week screws with. A league is the sum total of events , not the first 3 where someone is quickest, or ones you pick and choose to suit yourself. Qualy is about being fastest, a league is about scoring the most points .

I’ve been runner up in 3 seasons, because of DCs , lack of pace, being taken out, bugs, lack of talent, power cuts, you name it whatever, it’s part of online racing and I’ve never once moaned about it. but For a drop week It’s awful to lose that way mate,it feels terrible. The very fact that this type of discussion even needs rob takes place at all suggests the drop week rule is fundamentally flawed and not working as it was intended imo. At the end of the day, the championship is decided by points. Not how many 1st places, last places, times you were ahead or times you were taken out. You can cite whatever stat you want , but you can’t ignore this one: I scored more points than you.

Does this mean that I , like you I might add , also deserved to win the league ? I think it does, but Did I win the league? No. Personally I don’t think this is a good format for a league of 10 races I think it’s bollox. A rule that sees someone in the weird position of scoring the most points in a league but then not being allocated those points thereby not winning that league is fundamentally flawed. And that’s not a slight on you or your title it’s my opinion. Perhaps the problem is the combination of point allocation plus the drop week I don’t know. But to suggest that I didn’t deserve the win based on your stats when I had the most points overall, isn’t appreciated in the circumstances. Stats only tell half the story, which is why the points are what decides the league , not the stats.

I havent disrespected you or undermined your championship, nor have I intended to do that and if you feel that way I'm sorry And apologise and it's not the point I’m trying to make. But I do want this rule removed for future, not retrospectively. personally I think the drop week is problematic , and that’s no reflection on you, or how you drove this season so don’t perceive It as such or try to vindicate your win to me because there no need for it . If you want to discuss stuff further I suggest we do so in PM. If not , Good luck with ACC, and once again, congratulations.
 
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Mhill

AOR PS4 GT3 S14 T2 Champion
Staff member
PCARS Coordinator
Jan 2, 2018
1,590
932
Ok @Mhill you've written alot there and a full response is going take time and maybe this thread isn't the right place for some of it, but you brought us in this direction... I think you’re responding to things I didn’t actually write to be honest.

my original post above is feedback to the cods about the league and what I think about the drop week based on my experience of it - which the OP asks me for . I wrote about my experience of the drop week, not why I deserved the championship , or you didn’t , or vice Versa. Nothing I wrote was aimed at you. I didn't mention you in it save praising you, nor did I bring anyone else into it.

I never suggested nor would I have, that you were undeserving of the win or mention reasons other than the drop week as to why I think I should have won. Your response tells me that you think I did- I didn’t . I don’t have a problem you winning the championship, I’m happy for you, it was a hard fought season and you’re a decent bloke, but I have an issue with the rules that dictated how I lost it - and I was asked to give these. Are you clear about that ? And I sure as shi t didn’t ask for rules to be changed after the season ended so I would get a title either as you suggested - and imo you’re bang out of order for putting those words in my mouth and implying that’s what I wanted.

perhaps you took my post personally, Can I reiterate that I didn’t once bring you into my post above, but I tried to speak about the rules. Was I emotional? Yes. Did I point out specifics or undermine your performance At all in the season ? No. But you feel the need to do this to me? Until now - after the race in chat and in the threads I have only ever congratulated you and spoke of how well you drove and how tight it was. We both deserved to win mate. It’s the manner of how I lost via drop week that I have issue with not that you won. I don’t like it , nor do I want to win a league that way either in future and that’s not aimed at you. had I finished ahead of you at spa, i would have had the most points regardless of a drop week being applied or not. That same point didn’t apply to you. We knew the scenario yes- but the underlying points tally and permutations of it were not the same for both of us.

i could have cited Other leagues, like when someone won a championship without ever winning a race. By your logic they didn’t deserve that title even though they got the most points ? I could cite individual moments from our championship to prove a point like you have, such as Bugatti, where my race was compromised by a damaged car when someone drove into me, despite which, I didn’t look for a stewards enquiry to have them penalised out of sportsmanship, or hockenheim, or spa, where I was taken out on both occasions - and in those 3 scenarios lies your 7-3 stat. Bar 2 of those 3 incidents it’s 5/5 mate but that doesn’t matter to me. No matter how you frame it, The league is about points and that’s what the drop week screws with.

I’ve been runner up in 3 seasons, because of DCs , lack of pace, being taken out, bugs, lack of talent, power cuts, you name it whatever, it’s part of online racing and I’ve never once moaned about it. but For a drop week It’s awful to lose that way mate,it feels terrible. The very fact that this type of discussion even takes place at all suggests to me that the drop week rule is fundamentally flawed and not working in the way it was intended. At the end of the day, the championship is decided by points. Not how many 1st places, last places, times you were ahead or times you were taken out. You can cite whatever stat you want , but you can’t ignore this one: I scored more points than you.

Does this mean that I , like you I might add , also deserved to win the league ? I think it does, but Did I win the league? No. Personally I don’t think this is a good format for a league of 10 races I think it’s bollox. A rule that sees someone in the weird position of scoring the most points in a league but not winning that league is fundamentally flawed. And that’s not a slight on you or your title it’s my opinion. Perhaps the problem is the combination of point allocation plus the drop week I don’t know. But to suggest that I didn’t deserve the win based on your stats when I had the most points overall, isn’t appreciated in the circumstances. Stats only tell half the story.

I havent disrespected you or undermined your championship, nor have I intended to do that and if you feel that way I'm sorry And apologise and it's not the point I’m trying to make. But I do want this rule removed for future .We can disagree about that, which is fine , personally I think it’s wrong , a joke or ‘bullshit’ and that’s no reflection on you, or how you drove this season so don’t perceive It as such. there’s no need to bring anyone else into the discussion to argue my case or pick stats at will that put you down, or your performance. If you want to discuss stuff further I suggest we do so in PM. If not , Good luck with ACC, and once again, congratulations.
All I can say to this and myriad of previous edits with varying degrees of character assassination and assumptions made is wow (you do realise people read the forum and also the history is visible to anyone who wants to check your post and changing it doesn't change the things you have said in the post on its various guises). At no point have I criticised you or driving or reasons for putting your pov forward. I think your pov is fair enough. Also with your explanation of what you meant in your original post I apologise for misinterpreting it the bit about wanting the results changed. Just on the initial reading this bit

Am I the only person that the dropped score has shafted in this way, costing me a championship? AI would respectfully ask that this specific case be discussed by the cods behind the scenes...The boys in Maranello are in tears - they want the title they deserve, they need answers.
I took it for meaning that you wanted the season result looking at. I wasn't putting words in your mouth and to be fair without your explanation even now reading it sounds like that's what you want. I now know it wasn't. But saying I put words in your mouth and that I am bang out of order for doing so is a bit much...

Also in some of your 17 different edited posts you mention that I was trying to kick a man while he was down and that bringing up stats wasn't very classy, that you could have taken me to the stewards but you didn't out of sportsmanship and all of the other insults you chucked my way. I didn't in any way insult you or question how good your season was. I didn't take any of it personally, I didn't fly off the handle in my response and need to change it 17 times, I wasn't trying to make myself feel better about my championship and I wasn't trying to change the history of the season with well if this didn't happen and this happened then the results would have been this.

All I was putting forward was the counter argument to why the drop week should stay. The reason I mentioned the first lap incident wasn't because I wanted to say I would have beaten you that race or any of that nonsense, it was to point out that imo having the drop week was a good thing to protect against things like that. You yourself said you have lost titles to things like this and disconnects. If the rule was in place then you wouldn't and that would have been a great thing imo.

We all had incidents that made certain result worse that they could have been, even the spa race you mention I was put in the wall by someone spinning accelerating out of the bus stop. I wasn't trying to reframe history or bemoan my luck with it's and buts, I was just pointing out that having the drop week takes some of the pain out of incidents like that. You mention hockenheim and how you were put around on that lap. Luckily for you you didn't get your car totalled and managed to fight back up the field but that result was eliminated as it was your worst result. Imo the main difference about the two incidents is how badly it affected the end result at the end. Thats my pov but feel free to disagree.

The second thing about bringing the stats in was also to make my point that imo the rule worked as intended. It's there so that if you on the whole finish in front of someone then they will finish the season on front of them. That is literally why it is there. My point about the stats was that it has done its job well. There are many other ways that this could be achieved, changing the points awarded for example so that there is a higher ratio of points awarded the higher you are, however in the end it's just a different way to try and achieve the same end result. So my point was to say you only lost because of a drop week I still believe is wrong. Admittedly it's a hard way to loose. But if we are saying that points awarded needs to be looked at to and that we want to award podiums and wins more then at the end of the day it will mostly achieve the same end result.

I also don't want to fall out over this. I have really enjoyed this season, practicing with you, @Slicker, @Jarryd Vermeulen and tinnus has been amazing and the tips and tricks you have all shared with me and general help has been amazing and I really appreciate it.

I honestly don't think what I wrote was in any way making anything personal like you believe or insulting. I am sorry if you took it that way but it was never my intention. I am not malicious and I don't think you are either but some of the things you wrote in the various edits I see as being a little bit over the line and a bit insulting but I know we all say things in the heat of the moment. I know it's not been fun for you, I haven't wanted to rub salt in the wound, if you rememeber I didn't even celebrate in the post race lobby out of respect for you.

Hope to see you next season and that you have fun in dirt rally.
 
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NynS

Formula 4 1st Driver
Jan 23, 2019
173
148
Back on topic.

What did you like about the season?
The fact that I could make all ten races and had no disconnects at all. Either PCars2 is finally getting stable now the game is dying or some other voodoo is not at work anymore
What should we change?
I'm fine with it, though ease on banhammering and blacklisting a bit. The game is already dying and losing more people is detrimental to the state of the league...
What should we keep doing?
Rock at hosting!
What do you think of the Drop Week?
Not a fan of it. It was used for the many retirements in formula 1, but considering it is impossible to actually retire due to mechanical issues or crashes (except if you run radiator on 0 or retire yourself) it seems pointless to use it in online racing. Disconnects are the online mechanical failures and it's just bad luck rather than that one should be compensated. Furthermore, it minimises the difference between front and back (backmarkers getting a P18 gone, frontrunners a P6) giving you a strange view of the final standings.
 

StephenCarry

AOR PC GT3 S14 T2 Champion
Premium Member
Jun 13, 2019
184
112
@Michel--NL would you kindly change my name in the taglist from 'mbkmsi' to my newish one? Just found this thread by chance. cheers mate :p

oof, seems like the drop week creates some spark.. I'll leave a few words at the end of this post.


What did you like about the season?

A lot of things.. where do I start? :D

- Some drivers had problems with our host in T2, so we changed that. Several guys offered help and we fixed it as a complete field. Lovely!
- The racing. Obviously there have been many stewards inquiries but all in all I think all drivers did a perfect job for 99% of the time. The other 1% are just human, noones perfect. Yes, there have been 1 or 2 drivers who will probably never use their mirrors or read the rules on how to defend/attack. Yes, there have been avoidable, stupid things (failing to being lapped, failing to lap, failing to properly overtake according to the rules and so on) - but as I said - 99% of the time it was pure, fun and very fair racing for everyone.
- Hockenheim Classic and 10x timing at Spa. Initially I thought WTF CLASSIC?!?!! but maaaan what an awesome race this was! I'd love to see more "unusual" tracks! Also 10x or even more timestretching is just an easy way to mix things up. Temps falling down so low, you maybe have to change tyres? Oh, the possibilities!
- the fairness in communication
- the participation on discord and especially the forums. Just check our race threads - nearly a 100 posts in every thread on every race! Compared to tier 1, where sometimes only 3 or 4 guys replied...
- the participation: yes, there have been a few dropouts, as per usual. Whether it's ppl who underestimate the time effort or just plain idiots who don't care.. but we've been more than 20 cars all season long!!!!!
- reverse grids. Well last season I nearly sat on pole, this season I'm at the back at those. But it's. sooo. much. fuuun to drive through the field and it's soooo much fun to be at the top and maybe have a great result if you're used to being faaar away from p15 or so :)


What didn't I like?

- too harsh and too quick decisions regarding blacklisting drivers. There have been some occasions where ppl were banned/blacklisted although they did everything right and informed a no show in time etc.
- the voice communication. Beginning of the season we probably only had 15 drivers on discord whereas 15 haven't been there. Created a LOT of stress for the drivers and especially the coordinator, resulted and several nasty mishaps...
- some ppl who take this all too seriously. Yes, @NynS and I are guilty of being clowns, just like others who love to have a quick laugh or banter during the race. But guys come oon are multiple earraping "PEOPLE ARE DRIVING SHUT UUUP!!!!!11" really necessary? Just relax a bit just like we did last season :)
- raging in discord. Well apart from our usual banter there have been a handful drivers who complain half a minute and also sometimes even shout waaay too loud... unnecessary.
- ragequits, i.e. drivers leaving when they have a bad race or after they retired. Yes, I call them ragequits. Our coord @TicklishPicklewickle mentioned MULTIPLE times that this is against the rules and won't be tolerated any longer, but some didn't care...
- drivers giving up positions too easy. I understand the thoughts behind it "well he's way faster than I am, let's not disturb him in his way back to the top", that's a feat of a gentleman. But it has nothing to do in a competition. If a top driver spins in lap 1 and you just let him pass: well we could all slow down and wait for him to be back on P1 or from wherever he started.
- drivers who didn't read the ruleset regarding what is allowed and what isn't. The usual things: weaving five times on a straight, pushing you off the road when you're beside them for half a lap, pulling from left to right under braking when you just overtake them and so on.


What should we change?

- LESS. RAIN! :D three wet races is too much. We can have "bad" conditions in soooo many ways: too hot, too cold, fog, light rain or just rain for a few minutes so it becomes interesting to think about changing tyres or not and so on.
- change the approach on the drop week.
- REMOVE DOUBLE POINTS FOR THE LAST RACE. Imagine something like this: DriverA wins 9 races, drops out of race 10. DriverB is 99 points behind, but wins race 10 - is he the rightful champion? no way. I would understand double or maybe 75p for the winner in 1.5hour races, but double points in the last race is just nonsense.


What should we keep doing?

- the organisation. I said it before: I think nobody understands what kind of effort you, the admins, the mods, the stewards and of course the coordinators put into this - just for the funsies! Absolutely lovely <3
- 10 races. A longer season wouldn't mean better racing, it would only mean more people dropping out. Just look at Tier1 on PC for example :/
- those strange race calendars. You really surprise me every season^^ I would like to see more of those tracks nobody ever actually raced before in an online lobby (Texas?! Hock Classic?! :D ) Although I would also like to see some of those "classic" tracks we all do almost every day; RBR, Monza, and so on.

What do you think of the Drop Week?

difficult.


Pro is definitely some ppl simply miss one race in the season. Family, friends, work, sickness, name it.

Contra on the other hand... why would you drop one race? It's a principle from 50s and 60s motor racing, when drivers and cars/bikes wouldn't even finish in 50% of the races. And you can see it fuels discussions and confusion...

It's fair, definitely. But I simply don't know... AAAH! :D

I had two disconnects this season: in the first I was in P1 from lap 1 to 17 and had a 20sec+ gap to P2. Then DSC... From that point of course a drop week would be sweet. But why should I be privileged, just bcs someone elses worst result is p2 - which would be dropped? hmpf.
 
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VoodooChild

Assetto Corsa Coordinator
Staff member
AC Coordinator
Mar 27, 2018
1,148
943
Then why have a 10th race ? your approach is philosophical and I appreciate that approach. But it’s called a dropped week because it removes a result . There’s nothing to understand here, that’s the reality . And what it removes , or disregards , or doesn’t count , is not the same for everyone no matter how you choose to frame it.You probably like the rule because you benefit from it . I haven’t and I don’t . My time and family sacrifices to race every week are no different than anyone else’s either . But we’re not going to agree on this I think which is fair enough so all the best(y)
Hi, as an old pc2 Cod and the one who proposed the rule in season 12 (following the feedbacks of a lot of drivers, ofc) i can 100% tell you that "drop week" has always been a bad name for it, and I always pushed to call it "best 9 result" because that is the spirit of the rule.

So it's not called "drop week" because it removes a result, it's called "drop week" because it's a fancy and catchy name, but the rule is "best 9 out of 10" (as a proof, if someone joins after race 2 and races all the 8 remaining rounds, he doesn't "drop" any result.)

If you don't like the rule it's 100% your right to give a negative feedback to it, but don't twist it.
 

Archie619

F1 Senna Equivalent
Jun 28, 2016
1,270
1,346
Good Points
Track Choice: Enjoyed the varied track choices as it didn't favour one car through the whole season although the amg seems a beast at most tracks. Really liked the classic hockenheim round and the choice of spa for the final round.

Replacments: One thing I liked in my tier but may have happened in others. Drivers who were constantly missing rounds with or without excuses got replaced and placed as a reserve. However I hope this is now considered if thr same drop outs join next season.

Bad Points
Drop Week: Seems to be the talking point. Personally I like what it was there to achieve. Those who get one dsc don't totally lose the title due to this however as ps4 tier two proved it can lead to issues. The system was designed to aid those who get disconnects but it seems it can also hinder those who have no issues.

Weather: I said it on the week but algarve was a joke. That wasn't a "race" it was a procession as overtaking spots had lakes on the track. Sakitto also had the lottery of rivers on track, hit it at slightly the wrong angle and you were in the wall regardless of speed.

Areas of Improvement/Suggestions
Drop Week: It was designed to help those who get a one off disconnect. So instead of doing the drop week how about if someone is disconnected and it can be proven with race recording etc they get credited with last place points of the finishers. If someone retires to pits and leaves they get nothing as it was there choice. So if say two people retire and leave and I were to get disconnected I get credited with 14th and get the points for that. This way there is no drop week confusion, disconnect if proven doesn't get totally punished and gets a few points and it's not really open to abuse as you'd have to prove the disconnect.

Weather: Take raceability into consideration with the weather. Also most weeks it was hard tyre only tracks. Temps that can allow both adds a bit of mix to strategy.

I may have more ideas and thoughts. These are just a few I had when typing.
 
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StephenCarry

AOR PC GT3 S14 T2 Champion
Premium Member
Jun 13, 2019
184
112
oh, I forgot one thing:

banning AMG and Lambo.

Stupid. Nothing more. If they are banned everyone would drive the 488. Then that would get banned. Everyone would pick the M6 and so on... just examples.

Banning cars doesn't solve a problem (that isn't there), it would only shift "the problem" to another car.

thanks!
 

Chickano

PS4 GT3 S9 AM Champion
Jan 30, 2018
424
536
Hi, as an old pc2 Cod and the one who proposed the rule in season 12 (following the feedbacks of a lot of drivers, ofc) i can 100% tell you that "drop week" has always been a bad name for it, and I always pushed to call it "best 9 result" because that is the spirit of the rule.

So it's not called "drop week" because it removes a result, it's called "drop week" because it's a fancy and catchy name, but the rule is "best 9 out of 10" (as a proof, if someone joins after race 2 and races all the 8 remaining rounds, he doesn't "drop" any result.)

If you don't like the rule it's 100% your right to give a negative feedback to it, but don't twist it.
Ok, thanks for the info and explanation. I wasn't trying to twist anything, and I appreciate the semantics involved - I was only giving my perspective (based on what the rule has been called until now). It might be an idea if possible to have championship tables that apply the rule from round 2 onwards, as the season goes on, rather than at the end after the 10 races. I think maybe that doesn't help / allow to rule to be perceived in the way you intend it
 

Chickano

PS4 GT3 S9 AM Champion
Jan 30, 2018
424
536
@Mhill

Well you learn something new every day. I didn't know about the history. The amount of edits are from removing things I typed that I regretted, or trying to reduce the length of the post, then just trying to get my point across without having a go at you even though I wanted to have a go at you because I felt you had a go at me! In my line of work I redraft writing all the time so this process of editing is just something I'm used to doing. I know it seems excessive but in work the team and I might redraft a document anywhere from 20 to 40 times and that's just normal for me. I hope you appreciate that some of the bits you refer to were removed, and so shouldn't be seen as still standing.

I get why you thought I wanted the results changed when I didn't, that's unfortunate, but really man I would never ask or even want for such a thing - that really isn't in my DNA to even consider, which is why it annoyed me so much at the time. I might hate a rule but a result is a result, no matter how aggrieved I might feel about it I accept the result and wouldn't contest it.

With the stats, from my initial reading I felt at the time that you were just trying to put me down and rub it in. I know you say it wasn't the case and that's grand but if you were to put yourself in my shoes, in the circumstances, I hope you can see how that would have made me feel at the time and why I reacted to it. There was literally nothing between us all season. To be honest if changing the points system, or having the 'drop week best of 9' rule (or whatever you ant to call it) applied throughout the season, rather than at the end after the 10 races, avoids the scenario we had then I'm all for it.

Please understand I'm very passionate about motorsport, especially when Ferrari are involved ( me driving a Ferrari and all). When Leclerc won at Monza this year I cried, broke out the cuban cigars and got myself and my neighbour drunk. I think part of my distaste with the rule is that it doesn't exist in motorsport, so I don't think it should in online / virtual motorsport, where as the reverse grids etc do. My real mistake was writing the initial post an hour or 2 after the race ( I even told slicker I would wait ) and to be honest the whole thing is regrettable. I'm a very competitive person, and a passionate person, and sometimes those things get the better of me, if you felt insulted I apologise. I like to think also that I'm a sporting person - i race very fair and respectfully - (don't think I've ever crashed into anyone in the 5 seasons ??) and I try to be respectful in lobbies and on the forum. Whatever I feel about the rule and however hard to take it was (trust me man, I've been through the 5 stages of grief this week) none of that was aimed at you or was intended as devaluing your win at all and I hope you accept that as it's absolutely the case.

It was a great season, we had some exceptional fights and the quality of the racing at times really coudn't be better. That's the most important thing I suppose and a great representation of AOR. Sakitto will live long in the memory for me as one of my finest ever drives. Likewise I enjoyed the practice lobbies and everything else that came with it. Again, sorry it's taken this route to arrive at this point, for me there's just been a few misunderstandings (on both sides) along the way and I reacted poorly to what you said but no ones perfect. I don't hold any grudges or maintain any desire to argue with you, so for me the thing is finished anyways, so just go and enjoy the off season as a reigning champion, ( you deserve to) and I'll try to be more constructive in my criticisms. I 'sure as sh it' won't be mentioning maranello again. Cheers and good luck.

PS to the cods keep giving us a race or 2 a season with rain and/or weather changes. Thaks
 
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Mhill

AOR PS4 GT3 S14 T2 Champion
Staff member
PCARS Coordinator
Jan 2, 2018
1,590
932
@Mhill

Well you learn something new every day. I didn't know about the history. The amount of edits are from removing things I typed that I regretted, or trying to reduce the length of the post, then just trying to get my point across without having a go at you even though I wanted to have a go at you because I felt you had a go at me! In my line of work I redraft writing all the time so this process of editing is just something I'm used to doing. I know it seems excessive but in work the team and I might redraft a document anywhere from 20 to 40 times and that's just normal for me. I hope you appreciate that some of the bits you refer to were removed, and so shouldn't be seen as still standing.

I get why you thought I wanted the results changed when I didn't, that's unfortunate, but really man I would never ask or even want for such a thing - that really isn't in my DNA to even consider, which is why it annoyed me so much at the time. I might hate a rule but a result is a result, no matter how aggrieved I might feel about it I accept the result and wouldn't contest it.

With the stats, from my initial reading I felt at the time that you were just trying to put me down and rub it in. I know you say it wasn't the case and that's grand but if you were to put yourself in my shoes, in the circumstances, I hope you can see how that would have made me feel at the time and why I reacted to it. There was literally nothing between us all season. To be honest if changing the points system, or having the 'drop week best of 9' rule (or whatever you ant to call it) applied throughout the season, rather than at the end after the 10 races, avoids the scenario we had then I'm all for it.

Please understand I'm very passionate about motorsport, especially when Ferrari are involved ( me driving a Ferrari and all). When Leclerc won at Monza this year I cried, broke out the cuban cigars and got myself and my neighbour drunk. I think part of my distaste with the rule is that it doesn't exist in motorsport, so I don't think it should in online / virtual motorsport, where as the reverse grids etc do. My real mistake was writing the initial post an hour or 2 after the race ( I even told slicker I would wait ) and to be honest the whole thing is regrettable. I'm a very competitive person, and a passionate person, and sometimes those things get the better of me, if you felt insulted I apologise. I like to think also that I'm a sporting person - i race very fair and respectfully - (don't think I've ever crashed into anyone in the 5 seasons ??) and I try to be respectful in lobbies and on the forum. Whatever I feel about the rule and however hard to take it was (trust me man, I've been through the 5 stages of grief this week) none of that was aimed at you or was intended as devaluing your win at all and I hope you accept that as it's absolutely the case.

It was a great season, we had some exceptional fights and the quality of the racing at times really coudn't be better. That's the most important thing I suppose and a great representation of AOR. Sakitto will live long in the memory for me as one of my finest ever drives. Likewise I enjoyed the practice lobbies and everything else that came with it. Again, sorry it's taken this route to arrive at this point, for me there's just been a few misunderstandings (on both sides) along the way and I reacted poorly to what you said but no ones perfect. I don't hold any grudges or maintain any desire to argue with you, so for me the thing is finished anyways, so just go and enjoy the off season as a reigning champion, ( you deserve to) and I'll try to be more constructive in my criticisms. I 'sure as sh it' won't be mentioning maranello again. Cheers and good luck.

PS to the cods keep giving us a race or 2 a season with rain and/or weather changes. Thaks
No worries mate. Like I said I know you aren't malicious and yeah agree we deffo had some miscommunications in this on both sides. It's hard to get your point across some times in text form. when you know how you mean something and have the context in your head when writing something means you don't realise the other ways it can be interpreted which I can see now from the things I wrote on my post. In my head I could only see one way of it being taken. But 100% can see where you are coming from. So apologies for anything that came across badly, 100% never meant for it to be a put down in any way shape or form.

Yeah you are deffo a clean and fair driver. Don't think I saw you put a foot wrong to be honest.

We need less rain though, you were too good in it. :ROFLMAO:
 
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VSR_Rotary

PS4 Triple Crown Le Mans LMP1-H tier 1 Winner
Apr 10, 2018
848
749
. I think the method is not like I'm going to suggest: the 2-3 top drivers of every tier (not tier 1) should be promoted to the next tier, while the 2-3 worst drivers should be relegated and have priority over new drivers (I mean, if a driver is relegated from a tier but there are new places in this tier, keep the drivers and let the new drivers in lower tiers).

I agree with this, I am going to say this not in a disrespectful manner but more just pointing out the fact there were some drivers who just don't suit Tier 1 one driver for example had 3 finishes outside the top 10, 4 DNFs and only 3 top 10 finishes and 60% reliability I don't think that is suitable enough for Tier 1 of course there are going to be accidents and disconnections but 4 DNFs and 3 non top 10 finishes is rather poor standards for Tier 1. Now I know not everyone is going to be a top GT3 driver because availability, practice, car knowledge and setup but the point still stands those who weren't up to pace crashed due to lack of practice or car setup knowledge and retired or on the odd occasion carried on. Of course populating the lobbies was crucial since we only had 3 tiers but populate the lobbies with drivers with capable means of competing in Tier 1. The top 3 of Tier 2 should automatically be placed in Tier 1 as they have proven themselves to be at the top of the field throughout the season, and those in Tier 1 who finished outside the top 10 should be moved down into Tier 2. Of course newcomers into AOR may already have the pace to just jump straight into Tier 1 on their debut season hence why removing anyone from outside the top 10 makes space for newcomers. People who joined halfway through the season in Tier 1 showed pace but finished outside the top 10 should stay based upon the fact that if they had a full season they may have finished further up the order.
This just my opinion, I want what's best for AOR and the best racing because we are coming to the end of PC2s life cycle so numbers are going to be falling but doesn't mean our quality of the tiers falls along with it.
 
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TicklishPicklewickle

Project CARS Coordinator
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PCARS Coordinator
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Oct 23, 2016
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I agree with this, I am going to say this not in a disrespectful manner but more just pointing out the fact there were some drivers who just don't suit Tier 1 one driver for example had 3 finishes outside the top 10, 4 DNFs and only 3 top 10 finishes and 60% reliability I don't think that is suitable enough for Tier 1 of course there are going to be accidents and disconnections but 4 DNFs and 3 non top 10 finishes is rather poor standards for Tier 1. Now I know not everyone is going to be a top GT3 driver because availability, practice, car knowledge and setup but the point still stands those who weren't up to pace crashed due to lack of practice or car setup knowledge and retired or on the odd occasion carried on. Of course populating the lobbies was crucial since we only had 3 tiers but populate the lobbies with drivers with capable means of competing in Tier 1. The top 3 of Tier 2 should automatically be placed in Tier 1 as they have proven themselves to be at the top of the field throughout the season, and those in Tier 1 who finished outside the top 10 should be moved down into Tier 2. Of course newcomers into AOR may already have the pace to just jump straight into Tier 1 on their debut season hence why removing anyone from outside the top 10 makes space for newcomers. People who joined halfway through the season in Tier 1 showed pace but finished outside the top 10 should stay based upon the fact that if they had a full season they may have finished further up the order.
This just my opinion, I want what's best for AOR and the best racing because we are coming to the end of PC2s life cycle so numbers are going to be falling but doesn't mean our quality of the tiers falls along with it.
I've seen a few posts about this now. This is already what we do. It's in the league information thread. But as it says, how we do it highly depends on the circumstances. For example this season PC went from 3 to 2 tiers so we had to take into account where to put drivers that way. We couldn't just put drivers who were in T3 last season in T3 this season because there was no T3 this season. So in that regard it can be hard for us to place drivers from one season to the next. But we try our best to take every factor into account when we do this. It's not so black and white as some of you make it out to be unfortunately.
● Promotion & relegation system
While there are no 100% fixed promotion & relegation spots, we try to judge drivers' league placement based on finishing positions in the championship from the season before, along with overall pace and consistency throughout the season.

Ideal scenario: The top few finishers from each league will be guaranteed a move to the league above, and the bottom few will be guaranteed a move to the league below (if possible).
However, bear in mind that how much it is possible to adhere to this system will depend on how many of the league drivers carry over to the following season, and in turn how many league tiers are set up. The AOR Project CARS team may move people up or down once the season has begun if we feel they have been mis-placed.
 
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Freggel

Formula 4 1st Driver
May 24, 2019
175
155
First of all, it was great driving here again. Very well organized and a lot off practice opportunities tnx to @Slicker.

Tracks:
Good mixture off tracks.

Weather:
3x rain within 10 tracks is a lot. Like someone else said, playing with temperatures can also be competitive.

Duration:
I rather not see the last race to be a 90 minutes race(no good explanation why). 2x90 a season is ok, but not more and not longer then 90.
10x timespeed was great!

Cars:
Dont ban cars. You also will have cars which are faster, so you end up with two possible cars nobody wants to drive.
I think the car problem can be made smaller by selecting tracks and weather conditions suitable for the slower cars.

9 out of 10:
Drop this one is just as justified as leaving it, but I think the cods and so have to evaluate if the outcome was what they expected and ifvit it is desirable.

Double points:
Really no fan of this one. Why make one track more important then another. Maybe you can give 2 + points each race someone is there, so you can gather an extra 20 a season if you're very reliable.

Commentary:
Perfect to attract other racers. Very nice to watch back the races.

Teams:
Please consider different cars in one team.

Keep up the good work and see you again next season.