AOR GTSL Season 12 Gr.X Cup | Rd 2 | Tokyo Expressway - South Inner Loop | 11th June | ApexOnlineRacing.com

AOR GTSL Season 12 Gr.X Cup | Rd 2 | Tokyo Expressway - South Inner Loop | 11th June


Delaney

F1 Senna Equivalent
Staff member
GT Coordinator
Mar 12, 2016
2,907
1,911
S12_RaceInfo_R2.jpg

Main Discussion || Sign Up || Team and Livery || Time Trial || League Information || Results and Standings || Calendar || Rules and Regulations || Stewards Panel

Notices:
● Rules & regulations: Before you take to the track in the league race, make sure you are fully aware of the rules and regulations of the leagues. As a driver in our leagues, you are required to do your very best to ensure clean and fair racing at all times.

● No-shows: If you are unable to attend the race, please inform the League Coordinator and leave a post in this thread BEFORE the race takes place.

● Lobby settings: If you are unsure about the rest of the lobby settings that will be used, look here.

● Save your replay: As a means of helping the stewards with any enquiries, all drivers are required to save their race replays and keep it stored for at least one week after the race has taken place. If you are involved in an incident or see something during the race that you feel needs to be investigated, you are free to make a stewards enquiry - however if enquiries are submitted without replay or race footage available, it is likely we can't do anything.

● Gran Turismo Sport features an in-game penalty system that allows the driver to serve any penalties acquired at their leisure. Predictably, this can cause problems, chief among them is the gaggle of cars at the end of races slamming on the brakes in a desperate attempt to scrub off any penalties they might have. In an effort to promote clean and fair racing we at AOR GT Sport League ask all drivers to practice the following procedure:
Time penalties awarded by the game should be served as soon as possible within the next lap. If the penalty is not served within this time you will have the initial penalty + 1 second per sector until the penalty is served added to your overall race time. As always serving a penalty needs to be done safely, away from the racing line, without blocking and/ or endangering others. If a penalty is acquired during the last lap and is not able to be served before exiting the final corner, it may NOT be served before the finish line.
Failure to follow this procedure may result in action taken by the Stewards Panel.

● As for contact penalties you are allowed to ignore the penalty provided the contact did not result in an off-track excursion for any of the parties involved. If another driver does has an off-track excursion as a result of your actions you are still obliged to give up any position gained as a result of said contact.

● Also if you pick up a penalty for track limit violations whilst you have a pre-existing contact penalty you only need to serve the track limit penalty in the usual time frame (within the next lap).

● If you have any queries please contact a co-ordinator or log it in the stewards panel.
@BL99DY-NINE @Delaney @GKRT_PinkiiBoii @Hasnain

A reminder of the rules can be found here.

Startlist:
  1. @Delaney - Race host (room open 6.45 pm BST)
  2. @Meg1s
  3. @Caaalyy
  4. @HRacingGreen
  5. @Wedgybo
  6. @Wobbuffet
  7. @jutngo
  8. @Ashracer2011
  9. @Hasnain
  10. @Bankai_Bullett
  11. @BL99DY-NINE
  12. @Miguel12358
  13. @leedamastr
  14. @RaceMechNick
  15. @SolidNinjaSnake
  16. @GKRT_PinkiiBoii - Race Commentator
Reserves:


Informed No-Show


Uninformed No-Show


Resigned



A live stream of the race can be found on the official AOR Youtube channel.

Preliminary Results
Qualifying
S12_Q_RD2.jpg


Feature
S12_F_RD2.jpg


Sprint

S12_S_RD2.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BL99DY-NINE

F1 Senna Equivalent
Staff member
GT Coordinator
May 14, 2018
1,113
1,081
ATTENTION

The following is the proper way to enter the pits:

It'd be great if everyone could follow the example above. However, we all know the temptation to take the much faster way into the pit lane. BE WARNED, if any driver decides to use the very dangerous method of entering the pits & causes an incident that driver will receive the equivalent of a major collision and/ or be disqualified from the race pursuant to the discretion of the Stewards.

Also, DO NOT do the following:

This last one probably goes without saying as we, the coordinators, feel that the vast majority of our drivers hold sportsmanship in very high regard. However, we'd be ignoring our duties to provide a clean & fun driving experience for everyone involved if we did not point this out. BE WARNED, any driver judged to have deliberately abused the track in the method shown above will be disqualified.
 

Wobbuffet

F1 Senna Equivalent
May 20, 2016
3,723
2,415
ATTENTION

The following is the proper way to enter the pits:

It'd be great if everyone could follow the example above. However, we all know the temptation to take the much faster way into the pit lane. BE WARNED, if any driver decides to use the very dangerous method of entering the pits & causes an incident that driver will receive the equivalent of a major collision and/ or be disqualified from the race pursuant to the discretion of the Stewards.
I would like to ask for a pretty important clarification on this, is the vid above only a advisory/recommended pit entry and are we (all the drivers) still completely free to decide the way we choose to enter the pitlane at this track?

(So basically if you decide to go for the faster dangerous method, it is at your own risk of serious penalty if you get it wrong, ie: crash into other driver)
 
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BL99DY-NINE

F1 Senna Equivalent
Staff member
GT Coordinator
May 14, 2018
1,113
1,081
if you decide to go for the faster dangerous method, it is at your own risk of serious penalty if you get it wrong, ie: crash into other driver
Got it in one… It is in line with our normal advisory for not crossing the white line on pit exit:
"While the game doesn't hand out penalties for encroaching on the white line on pit exit you may
receive one from we the Stewards for illegal blocking and/ or causing a collision"


I will be taking the pit entry method in the video shown above regardless of whether or not other drivers are around when I feel the need to pit. I would also encourage everyone else to do likewise.
 
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Delaney

F1 Senna Equivalent
Staff member
GT Coordinator
Mar 12, 2016
2,907
1,911
An extra thing to be aware of is that people braking to pit will naturally do so a bit later, than those not pitting, so be careful guy’s
 
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HRacingGreen

GT: Sport League S12 Champion
Premium Member
Jan 30, 2015
3,472
1,757
Also, DO NOT do the following:

This last one probably goes without saying as we, the coordinators, feel that the vast majority of our drivers hold sportsmanship in very high regard. However, we'd be ignoring our duties to provide a clean & fun driving experience for everyone involved if we did not point this out. BE WARNED, any driver judged to have deliberately abused the track in the method shown above will be disqualified.
The biggest and strongest cheese known to man.
 

Wobbuffet

F1 Senna Equivalent
May 20, 2016
3,723
2,415
Ok everyone I think this is pretty important to have in the public domain Delaney & co-ords, as the results of my stewards has to raise serious questions going forward.

Now firstly while I naturally disappointed with the stewards decision regarding the lag incident at T1 last round, I do understand thats its not an easy job and normally I accept stewards decisions regardless of whether they go for or against me, however in this instance I have to disagree and I think what was decided has potential ramifications further down the line so its pretty important that these are cleared up, but the fact also I'm pretty annoyed at the reasons given for the verdict I got as these clearly aren't true in some points.
(And I have no choice but to post my thoughts here as that stewards thread is locked and since what I have to say affects the next round onwards I am perfectly entitled to post it here.)

Now first up the verdict from it which I quoted below for everyone to see:
Verdict:
. The following collision is unavoidably for Ash and SNS. We see no collision with Bankai that could accellerate R_K's car.
The rules state:
"1.1.3. If you accidentally take out another car, or are responsible for causing an incident, you have to slow down and safely let the affected car(s) back in front of you on track"
"1.1.3.1. The above rule still applies even if lag (connection issues) is the cause of the incident, when it is obvious that your car's lag is the cause of another driver going off",

R_K should have assumed, given his history of lag, that the incident could very well have been caused by him lagging and should as a consequence have waited for SNS and Ash and have allowed them to assume their place in front of him. That R_K was off track and reentered with dirty tires in a critical situation, is seen as a worsening factor.
But heres the thing I can clearly prove majority of the reasons of this verdict wrong, and that's why I'm annoyed.
R_K enters the corner a bit too fast and run wide. He then reenter a bit unsafely and unfortunately lag at the same time. We see no collision with Bankai that could accellerate R_K's car.
My footage I posted in the stewards, (everyone else please watch from 0:11 onwards):

...0:17:confused:

So apparently not only do the stewards think I re-enter unsafely, despite there being no other way to come back on the track (very carefully and slowly) they somehow 'see no collision with Bankai that could accelerate my car', when its a indisputable fact that everyone can clearly see from my footage I got hit.
I think the other important fact is that I had rear damage (flashing on my screen after this) which also proves that I clearly got hit by Bankai's lagging car, so it wasn't me lagging at this moment.

Now I'm not disputing that Bankai's car didn't lag on some other peoples screens, but it clearly happened and I fail to understand why its clearly being ignored here and the opposite is being used as part of the reason in this verdict.
The rules state:
"1.1.3. If you accidentally take out another car, or are responsible for causing an incident, you have to slow down and safely let the affected car(s) back in front of you on track"
"1.1.3.1. The above rule still applies even if lag (connection issues) is the cause of the incident, when it is obvious that your car's lag is the cause of another driver going off",
With the rules, for 1.1.3 I will argue - how can I be responsible for that to possibly apply when the car behind me lags into and hits me suddenly and unexpectedly forward, theres literally no way anybody could do anything different in my position.
and as for 1.1.3.1 I will argue with this - it clearly isn't obvious that its a lag issue to me - as I got hit into Ash not my car lagging, I made physical contact with Ash on my screen so there is no way that could indicate to myself or anyone in that position it was lag.

R_K should have assumed, given his history of lag, that the incident could very well have been caused by him lagging and should as a consequence have waited for SNS and Ash and have allowed them to assume their place in front of him. That R_K was off track and reentered with dirty tires in a critical situation, is seen as a worsening factor.
Now yes I've had lag at times in the past, but since then I've always had lag checks done by others in the room before the start of the round, (and again I got the all clear before the round) and have not had anyone mention to me since the start of S11 any lag issues involving myself in races.

Also this is the first time I've been involved in a incident of this kind, so I don't see how I or anyone in my shoes could have known it was a lag incident, and this is the thing I asked other drivers for there opinion on what they would have done in my shoes and you know what they said - they would have done exactly the same thing I did: continued on.
(If any of them want to come forward it is down to there discretion),

Also I will make a couple other key points.

Going back to Bankai lagging car hitting me, now if that happened with no other cars ahead of me, I would've got hit straight off the track - but if I take that to the stewards I and everyone else knows it would have to be classified as bad luck and NFA.

But to go one step further lets say while taking T2 Bankai doesn't hit me, but instead my car lags and hit Ash and causes him and SNS to spin out, (and I don't have any contact on my screen) then it would in theory be no different to Bankai's car lagging and hitting me off the track, so if we're following what the stewards normally decide regarding lag incidents across this site then surely that would also be classified as bad luck and NFA as well.

You also had a different issue which has been completely ignored and not mentioned at all since last week, where Meg1s couldn't stay connected to the lobby, that could also be used to indicate that the host's lobby stability in general wasn't as good as it has been on previous nights.

Which with everything I've said about this, the verdict, the rules, but the lobby itself and it lack of full connectivity to others which wasn't even considered, again I could even add and point to the lobby host as being partly responsible, so all of this for me leads to the real conundrum the stewards faced here.
I suspect they felt I had to be penalised for this, as inadvertently or lagging cars or not I hit 2 people who had there races badly effected at the start.

But the reality is none of the rules mentioned above properly apply or fully cover this incident and as a result I'm would like to take this further so I would like to ask @Def & @Erti147 to look into this stewards & decision:

With everything I've pointed out above with the verdict and the reasons - where I've factually proven some of the of the verdict given is untrue in parts, and that most importantly neither of the rules stated and used by the stewards here can't apply to this as,
1.1.3 - can't apply as I got hit by a lagging car and therefore I can't be responsible.
&
1.1.3.1 - can't apply either as it clearly isn't obvious I could know my car was lagging, as I made physical contact with Ash, but another fact there were other people who had connection problems to the lobby host on the night and one couldn't join at all.

So because of all this Def & Erti, were neither rule above can surely be legitimately applied, I strongly feel I have legitimate grounds for an appeal and for my penalty to be rescinded.

If I had hit Ash without any contact from Bankai's lagging car then I wouldn't have a leg to stand on and would have accepted this stewards decision no problem, but this was clearly a lag incident completely out of my hands and I'm don't see how I can get penalised for this.

Its why I'm very frustrated and annoyed with this decision and concerned looking ahead.

Because this leads on to the bigger ramifications for this league I mentioned at the start of this post.

The million $ question has to be, are the stewards here now simply going to be punishing drivers who cause any kind of lag incident from now on?

And I invite every other driver here to feel free to give there opinion as this is a big potential issue now, regardless of what you think of my stewards decision, looking ahead we all know lag can happen at any moment and your car lagging without you knowing could land you in hot water through no fault of your own, based on the stewards decision of this lag incident.
 
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Ashracer2011

F1 Senna Equivalent
Jan 14, 2014
978
526
So by that logic it's acceptable to ruin others races, continue with your own and bypass all responsibility for ensuring:

1) your connection isn't unstable and causing issues with others, we can check all we like but if its borderline bad it can worsen in the race.... We repeatedly mention this as being a recurring issue over the last 2 years. Surely there is something you can do to get a better more stable connection by now, cable or better wifi connection, most people use hard wired connections for this reason, WIFI on the PS4 isn't great.

2) Noticing that the two cars who were alongside you visually in view disappeared and on your track map those two other cars suddenly fly off in an abnormal manor, you definitely would of seen that and most likely would of heard tyre noises, crash sounds, in what is an unusual place on track for someone to be taken out in such a violent way.

3) No I wouldn't of continued if the shoe was on the other foot as for one I pay attention to my surroundings, track map and radar, and as has been seen before if I make a mistake or see someone has gone off and have doubt about it, I slow and wait, not speed off and grab a decent result because you've smashed off a few close competitors. So please DO NOT speak for me or make suggestions about others and there actions.

The ruling is never going to suit everyone, It would not of gone the stewards if you'd waited, despite the fact it ruined my race completely through no fault of my own. But I guess you couldn't give a hoot about other people here anyway, rather just make your "stats" list look better for yourself.

That is all I'm going to say on the matter. Case closed as the stewards have said.
 
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HRacingGreen

GT: Sport League S12 Champion
Premium Member
Jan 30, 2015
3,472
1,757
I'm not gonna get into it massively, but I think if lag causes an incident rather than driver error, the penalty for causing a corresponding severity of collision should not be as severe. I also sometimes think stewards panels can look for things that aren't really there/aren't as significant as they truly are years on the F1 panel shows that to be true, but of course I don't know the specifics of the decision making process so I'm not criticising, just saying what I see. Hopefully we don't see too many more incidents in the future that lead to races/championships being decided by penalties.
 
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BL99DY-NINE

F1 Senna Equivalent
Staff member
GT Coordinator
May 14, 2018
1,113
1,081
@Wobbuffet your objections to the stewards panel findings are noted. As previously stated, the case for the incident you were involved in has been closed. Further discussion on this topic serves little purpose other than to incite tensions among the driver base. I, as a representative of the Gran Turismo Coordinator Group am instructing you to cease & desist.

@Moderator @Super Moderators please keep an eye on this
 
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HRacingGreen

GT: Sport League S12 Champion
Premium Member
Jan 30, 2015
3,472
1,757
Back on topic, this is a properly hateful track.

Can't get out of the mid 56s and I know for an absolute fact there's so much pace to find which is endlessly frustrating. Plus I seem to need different steering angles for the sane corner each lap which is really messing with my mind.
 
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Caaalyy

Formula 4 Test Driver
Feb 10, 2020
75
143
Back on topic, this is a fucking hateful track.

Can't get out of the mid 56s and I know for an absolute fact there's so much pace to find which is endlessly frustrating. Plus I seem to need different steering angles for the sane corner each lap which is really messing with my mind.
I actually start to like this track. I’m doing mid 57s pretty consistently, high 56s with a near empty fuel tank, in an online lobby. I just need to avoid the walls. And other cars, but didn’t practice that yet.
I agree with the last one. Car reacts each lap different.
 
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HRacingGreen

GT: Sport League S12 Champion
Premium Member
Jan 30, 2015
3,472
1,757
I actually start to like this track. I’m doing mid 57s pretty consistently, high 56s with a near empty fuel tank, in an online lobby. I just need to avoid the walls. And other cars, but didn’t practice that yet.
I agree with the last one. Car reacts each lap different.
Yeah I've done a few more laps and am starting to get the hang of it. Long lap, high fuel usage, heavy tyre wear means the car is constantly changing. Consistency will be key for sure.
 
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