PC - AOR PC FR3.5 - Rounds 3 & 4 - Autodromo Nazionale Monza GP - 30/05/16 @ 8:00pm | ApexOnlineRacing.com

PC AOR PC FR3.5 - Rounds 3 & 4 - Autodromo Nazionale Monza GP - 30/05/16 @ 8:00pm


AndrexUK

2 times PC Project Cars 2 Champion
Staff member
AC Coordinator
May 6, 2015
5,697
5,531
That video is not loading for me, but I didn't even make it to Turn 6....so I don't think it was me that you got pushed into?
I was taken out in Turn1, (cause that's where you win a race!)... 30 aero damage + 10 second penalty!!!
Then caught some ppl into Turn2, then got taken out again, 42 Aero damage.

I believe Perdro said that it was him that hit me, due to being hit by someone else. So whoever it was, managed to take out 2 possible podium finishers out in 1 go.... GG
 

Gxbbs

Premium Member
Premium Member
Jan 14, 2014
1,996
1,000
I have to say, you were all warned that you need to take it easy on the first lap and it seems that a lot of people have not listened. I am very disappointed in this, and I think you all need to take a look at being cleaner on the first lap.

@R.Macieira @Senad Kocan @AndrexUK @Jozzers @DJ"Ballistic" @Francesco Cinque @Richard Mintoft @Viceguy @AJ @iSaintRevolt @t0daY @FlyingKman @IGCtci @RC_MoNsteR_99 @Beppo @Ricciardo @estebano @Dibbdroid @frejo @FisiFan91 @Hideaki @SteveRogers @Scooby44 @Paradyski @StelingDk @WarnTyre

Edit: I would also like to apologise to everyone who had their race ruined. All I can say at this moment in time, is that this is a new series and things like this will happen, but I am going to speak to the other coordinators and see if we can find a way to resolve these issues.
 
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Beppo

F1 Champion
Dec 9, 2014
731
369
All I can say is, that I tried to have my eyes everywhere and avoid contact as much as possible. But it pretty much looked like a pinnball multiball event out there, where you simply can't take every possible line into account.

I really don't understand, what is so hard just to take a line and stick to that, instead of weaving around like crazy. Things like that are extremly confusing and are causing further incidents as well.

Why is it that everyone has to go side by side into turn 1? Is it so hard to pick a gap for t1 and just follow the guy in front, untill everything starts to settle during lap 1?

I am more than ready to sacrifice positions to bring a nice order for the first lap into it, but when hell breaks loose like this everytime, then it is simply impossible and with people getting caught somewhere in the middle many people end up collecting cars by avoiding others... :(
 

estebano

GP2 2nd Driver
Mar 4, 2016
394
315
we might have :D cant remember anything :p only when i actually got hit properly :p
Ok I hace a video, I apologise again and I have to say IMHO it is a race incident. Sorry, we had some laps of fair battle and I'm dissapointed for this.


Edit to add this: :happy::stig::jawdrop::cry::unsure::oops::sorry:
 
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estebano

GP2 2nd Driver
Mar 4, 2016
394
315
All I can say is, that I tried to have my eyes everywhere and avoid contact as much as possible. But it pretty much looked like a pinnball multiball event out there, where you simply can't take every possible line into account.

I really don't understand, what is so hard just to take a line and stick to that, instead of weaving around like crazy. Things like that are extremly confusing and are causing further incidents as well.

Why is it that everyone has to go side by side into turn 1? Is it so hard to pick a gap for t1 and just follow the guy in front, untill everything starts to settle during lap 1?

I am more than ready to sacrifice positions to bring a nice order for the first lap into it, but when hell breaks loose like this everytime, then it is simply impossible and with people getting caught somewhere in the middle many people end up collecting cars by avoiding others... :(
I have to say @Beppo is one of the fairest drivers I have the pleasure to race with. And as the proof is in tue pudding, here is Beppo (I think with wrong livery in this video) as myself and (sorry I forgot who is the other driver, maybe @FlyingKman ?) were fighting like hell.

 
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Jozzers

Formula 4 2nd Driver
Apr 22, 2014
130
85
1st Race - Qually was compromised on my first hot lap as someone was determined to overtake me into T1, contact, damage, back to pits. think I quallied around 12th. Race, got away ok but was forced down the inside, was pushed along as we neared the first turn..grass, kerbs, into another car (sorry whoever that was) suspension damage. Limped back to the pits and managed 10th in the end. Might have managed to not pit again and possibly snuck an 8th but was reasonably happy to make it to the finish after having a wheel smacked off me at Silverstone.

2nd Race, Qually again left me miffed by someone trying to overtake me, this time around the 1st Lesmo on the warm-up lap in a train of cars; contact, damage, back to the pits again. :grumpy: What is the point of managing a space to the next car in front if you are going to try and race me on the outlap? Did you plan to overtake the next 4-5 cars weaving around warming their tyres up too?
Q12th again I think. Race - looked like everyone was a bit more tentative into T1 and avoided all contact, steady race, capitalised on a couple errors in front of me and finished a reasonable 8th.
 

FisiFan91

AOR Founder (on hiatus)
Staff member
AOR Admin
Jan 12, 2014
17,686
13,616
In my opinion it would be a great shame if we we forced to somehow change the starting procedure in order to avoid cars battling into turn 1. I know we're not professional real life racing drivers (and even professional real life racing drivers have incidents at race starts occasionally!), but it really should be possible for everyone to get through the first few corners without all hell kicking off.

Of course, Monza has one of the most tricky first corners given the hard braking zone and slow/tight apex (x2), and then the 2nd chicane where you have to be super generous with leaving room if you're side by side due to the sausage kerbs. But the first corner at Nurburgring next week is also very tricky, so we really need everyone to take this seriously and improve their awareness at the start. In cars as fragile as this, the main objective at the first few corners on any track should always be to get through it cleanly, as you can never win a race at the start, but easily ruin it for yourself or others if you're not careful.

It's hard to know what the reason is for these things happening - whether it's because some drivers are trying to be aggressive and gain positions at the start, or whether it's because some drivers lose concentration and make mistakes. Neither of which are particularly helpful at the start lol. Often a mistake/misjudgement from one or a few drivers can cause chaos and make it seem like everyone is being dirty, when that's not really the case.

Looking back at my own recording, all I see from my view is @Jozzers shooting up the inside from way back (it might have been that he was hit before that as well, I'm not sure) crashing into @RC_MoNsteR_99 and @AndrexUK, and it sounded like there were several dramas further back as well. Obviously, for those of you who got affected by this, feel free to bring it up to the stewards if you want it to be clarified further and penalties handed out if appropriate. Either way, the most important thing is that whoever was at fault learns from their mistake, and that everyone will try to be on their best behaviour for next week.

What I will also point out is that there was some bad language being used at times last night, both in the text chat and on teamspeak. While I completely understand that it is frustrating if you get caught up in an incident or something goes against you in the race, that's just part of racing at times, and you should all be mature enough to be able to control your temper and avoid throwing swear words at people. I think we are all here because we want to have a good time - sometimes it doesn't work out for whatever reason, but even though some people's driving may need to improve, nobody is here intentionally trying to wreck others' races, so please try to remain respectful and deal with setbacks in an appropriate way (try to talk it out with the other driver after the race, or bring it up for the stewards to deal with).

And finally, I will say that it would be helpful if you could all be on teamspeak during the session. Even if you don't want to be there for the social aspect, at least it would allow you to listen to any reminders or messages from the coordinators, which can make things go more efficiently. It has also been suggested that maybe it would be a good idea to implement a manual standing start procedure in this league as well (similar to what we had for the final few rounds of GT3 this season - see here). I don't know whether you guys think this would be necessary at this point? From what I'm aware the start issues we've had this season so far has been due mistakes or lack of awareness at the first few corners, and not due to green light sync issues, but IDK. Obviously if we were to implement this, this would also require all drivers to be on teamspeak.
 

AndrexUK

2 times PC Project Cars 2 Champion
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AC Coordinator
May 6, 2015
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That brings up another point!
During Quallifying, you do NOT interfere with another drivers lap!
You have to manage space and leave a gap to the car ahead if you think you may be faster than them.
And if you are on an outlap / non fast lap, then let others through / past (and make it obvious!).
The race last night was as bad as a Public race!
 
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FisiFan91

AOR Founder (on hiatus)
Staff member
AOR Admin
Jan 12, 2014
17,686
13,616
Oh yeah, the qualy thing is another thing I forgot to mention. There are two main pieces of qualifying etiquette that we all need to keep in mind during those sessions.

Firstly, it is up to each and every one of you to find yourselves a decent gap on the track when you're starting your flying lap(s). If you start your lap close behind another car which is slower than you, that's your own fault and you should then not try to pass that car on your lap, as that's inevitably going to cost both of you time.

Secondly, if you are on an outlap, or you have made a mistake on a hotlap and are clearly not going to improve with that lap, then make sure to not get in the way of faster cars behind you. Move out of the way until you find yourself a clear piece of track, and then go again.
 

t0daY

Reigning AOR PC Formula Renault 3.5 Champion
Premium Member
Apr 7, 2016
353
508
That brings up another point!
During Quallifying, you do NOT interfere with another drivers lap!
You have to manage space and leave a gap to the car ahead if you think you may be faster than them.
And if you are on an outlap / non fast lap, then let others through / past (and make it obvious!).
The race last night was as bad as a Public race!
I disagree on the part that the race was as bad as a public one. If you would watch the stream we had really good fights going on in the first and second race. Fisi and SteliDK (can't remember your name sorry!) just one of many examples.

You left the league so why continue posting here? A shame ur calling the race a bad one because it was actually quite amazing (if we leave out the first couple turns of lap 1)
 

Gxbbs

Premium Member
Premium Member
Jan 14, 2014
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I disagree on the part that the race was as bad as a public one. If you would watch the stream we had really good fights going on in the first and second race. Fisi and SteliDK (can't remember your name sorry!) just one of many examples.

You left the league so why continue posting here? A shame ur calling the race a bad one because it was actually quite amazing (if we leave out the first couple turns of lap 1)
I have already asked for this to stop. This kind of behaviour is something that can be frowned upon and isn't very pleasant for others to read.
@AndrexUK still has a right to express his opinion on the race which he was apart of.

@AndrexUK are you 100% dropping out of the season?
 

AndrexUK

2 times PC Project Cars 2 Champion
Staff member
AC Coordinator
May 6, 2015
5,697
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(if we leave out the first couple turns of lap 1)
Qually, with ppl interrupting / interfering with other drivers hotlaps (when they were on an outlap).
T1 destruction derby.
Sounds very much like a public session imo.

If you managed to survive, I'm sure there was some very good racing to be had.
Yes, I've left the league, but that doesn't mean I don't want the league to be as good as it can be. And I'm trying to point things out that might help.

I expect your next 'X disagree' in the next 30 seconds... (oh, and you forgot to disagree to my post #41!
[DOUBLEPOST=1464696990][/DOUBLEPOST]Sorry @Gxbbs but yes please.
Sorry to @FisiFan91 for dropping from the team as well
:(
 
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t0daY

Reigning AOR PC Formula Renault 3.5 Champion
Premium Member
Apr 7, 2016
353
508
Qually, with ppl interrupting / interfering with other drivers hotlaps (when they were on an outlap).
T1 destruction derby.
Sounds very much like a public session imo.

If you managed to survive, I'm sure there was some very good racing to be had.
Yes, I've left the league, but that doesn't mean I don't want the league to be as good as it can be. And I'm trying to point things out that might help.

I expect your next 'X disagree' in the next 30 seconds... (oh, and you forgot to disagree to my post #41!
I am totally with you about the qualy... I am just saying the race was not as bad as you mentioned it. I rewatched the complete stream (thanks to Tony and Kodiak who commentated the races) and it was enjoyable. Second race was completely neat even in turn 1.

@Gxbbs sorry that I defend the races. Amazing fights in the midfield. Flyingkman, Estebano and fisi, just a few names who had really good fights.

Yes one or other mistake during the qualy... Yes carnage in lap 1 turn 1 but all in all it was a really good race. I am just disappointed that the race will be now declared as the worst race in Aor history. And I am not talking about my race, I had 2 lonely races... Sorry for my 2 cents...
 

Viceguy

F1 Senna Equivalent
Jan 15, 2014
2,029
1,150
Ok I hace a video, I apologise again and I have to say IMHO it is a race incident. Sorry, we had some laps of fair battle and I'm dissapointed for this.


Edit to add this: :happy::stig::jawdrop::cry::unsure::oops::sorry:
ehm.. thats not me :D or atleast im 99% sure its not me :p
 

Gxbbs

Premium Member
Premium Member
Jan 14, 2014
1,996
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@Gxbbs sorry that I defend the races. Amazing fights in the midfield. Flyingkman, Estebano and fisi, just a few names who had really good fights.
I think that you have misunderstood what I am trying to say.
 

FisiFan91

AOR Founder (on hiatus)
Staff member
AOR Admin
Jan 12, 2014
17,686
13,616
I have noticed actually that the sprint races both this week and last week were a lot better on the start compared to the feature races, so clearly there is the potential within this group to have relatively clean starts! I guess maybe the experience of having done the first start helps people realise how careful they actually need to be, but of course, ideally we shouldn't need a bad start first in order to make the second start good.

I'm glad to hear there were some good battles going on through the field after the starts though. I'm looking forward to watch back the coverage of @King-kodiak & @TonyR :)
 

t0daY

Reigning AOR PC Formula Renault 3.5 Champion
Premium Member
Apr 7, 2016
353
508
I think that you have misunderstood what I am trying to say.
Got it now and yes you are right! I am quite disappointed that already 2 drivers leaving the league after a little bit carnage in turn 1. Especially with @AndrexUK because, as I said before, he was quite fast and I was really looking forward to race against him (got good memories with you in Bathurst in the last Elite GT3 league).

My tone was quite harsh and I want to apologize for that @AndrexUK. You got your reasons for it and me (we) should respect that.

I just think that we showed, especially in the 2nd race, that it is possible to start without any crashs. I am fully with you about the qualifying. One crash happened directly in front of me and I got hit by a tire. This should not happen at all!

Still I stay with my opinion that even with those "mistakes" the race was really nice to watch. If someone is interested here is the replay of the commentators:

 
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AndrexUK

2 times PC Project Cars 2 Champion
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AC Coordinator
May 6, 2015
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That Bathurst race earned you more than enough respect from me (for taking a cut penalty rather than drive into me) to counter any comments that maybe taken the wrong way. But I was punching above me weight there, and although the Turbo was countered by the aero dmg from the lag issues at the start, I think it was just a case of 'when' rather than 'if' you would get past me. and really, it was more going to be a case of when I decided I was holding you up, as defending would have just resulted in the guys behind catching me as well.

Perhaps I worded my post wrong, in that as a whole, the Monza event, may not warrant the 'As per Public' tag, but rather the Qually / Lap1 / T1 in Race 1 is not to the same level as where the league wants to be (yet).
It's just unfortunate, that with open wheelers, any contact can be lethal.
 
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