XB1 - AOR XB1 F1 League - Main Thread | ApexOnlineRacing.com

XB1 AOR XB1 F1 League - Main Thread


Stoo

F1 2nd Driver
Jul 3, 2015
557
305
That's the best plan for sure but like I said earlier, if you join back on the last lap, the game disqualifies you!! So do we just not join back on the last lap and let our AI finish the race? Will that still allow us to get points or will we put down as a "DSC" for not joining back on the last lap?
Actually to be fair I think there is a classified rule for finishing 90% of the race so technically you won't be counted as a retirement most likely. However I suspect since those who have disconnected so far and had their AI finish have got no points and been considered a DSC, I suspect the admins would count from the point of the track where you disconnected as your last contribution to the race if it was on the last lap you got disconnected. So that would effectively mean you would be classified as a the final finisher which in this day and age of 22 man grids, will most likely mean no points. Just like what would ultimately happened if you tried to rejoin and got immediately DSQ.

This of course is all speculation really and my rational thinking. Ultimately the men with the answers are the admins.
 

Ycoms

Double AOR iRacing GTE Champion
Mar 4, 2015
2,182
1,868
With the current league rules (I checked on them to see if anything could help us in this case) there's nothing we can do in this case. There's also no 90% rule like the commentators or @Stoo mentioned. At the current state it'd depend where the driver DC'd and that's the lap number that will count. So if it's on the last lap, he'd finish in front of every car that got lapped at some point obviously. Personally I think it wouldn't be good to implement a rule that for example if you've finished 90% of the race and you DC after it you'll get the points wherever your AI finishes. With that someone could leave the session deliberately after these 90% (most of the time 2 laps to go) to secure the place if he has an enough good gap to the car behind (for whatever reason...risk of a crash/puncture). And that's definitely not that we should aim for, people should still have the responsibility to finish their races on their own.

It's very unfortunate that the game has some bugs that are going on with the tyre rules when someone rejoins the session, especially on the last lap when you can't compensate anything anymore and can't do the stupid extra pit-stop. But again, as long as there isn't a rule change there's nothing we can do. However I'll get this topic in the coordinator discussion quickly to see if there are some opinions that a 90% rule makes any sense.
 

TheFlyingFinn08

4-time AOR XB1 F1 Champion
Aug 23, 2016
222
202
Personally I think it wouldn't be good to implement a rule that for example if you've finished 90% of the race and you DC after it you'll get the points wherever your AI finishes. With that someone could leave the session deliberately after these 90% (most of the time 2 laps to go) to secure the place if he has an enough good gap to the car behind (for whatever reason...risk of a crash/puncture). And that's definitely not that we should aim for, people should still have the responsibility to finish their races on their own.
What if you guys put down a rule which will give a 5 second time penalty for each lap the driver wasn't in control of the car, so this will mean that, like you said, if someone disconnects on purpose with 2 laps to go to avoid a puncture, or secure the place, they will actually lose the position because of the 10 second time penalty anyway?

At the end of the day, i dont think its fair for the driver that disconnects on the LAST LAP or two, should be rewarded possibly 0 points compared to the drivers who may disconnect multiple times during mid-race which will end up not having to pit at the end, nor get disqualified. Because if someone disconnects mid race, (before their last pitstop), they will pit anyway, and they will be able to finish the race too, yet the guy who gets disqualified on the last lap or two, will automatically be disqualified by the game for joining on the last lap, and if he doesnt join back then he gets put down as a "DSC" or the last finisher..

Btw, im not here to argue or disrespect people, i'm here to just address all this so we know what to be prepared for if it happens!
 

Ycoms

Double AOR iRacing GTE Champion
Mar 4, 2015
2,182
1,868
What if you guys put down a rule which will give a 5 second time penalty for each lap the driver wasn't in control of the car, so this will mean that, like you said, if someone disconnects on purpose with 2 laps to go to avoid a puncture, or secure the place, they will actually lose the position because of the 10 second time penalty anyway?
Will add this to the discussion. Still you can't be sure if you lose the car on these last couple of laps to go into the wall or have a crash with someone else. After all (even when applying penalty seconds) it's still gifting a position without finishing the race. It's like a check-point race then, if you go to 90% you're fine, you may lose 15-20 seconds if you DC now, but if you're in a good position you'll still get points. And drivers who aren't gaining a position off of this will complain obviously that this guy didn't even finish the race, but he's still in front of them.
It's unbelievably unfair and the game robs you many many good points potentially, but you're not able to make it fair to everyone by applying such a rule imo.
 

FisiFan91

AOR Founder (on hiatus)
Staff member
AOR Admin
Jan 12, 2014
17,686
13,617
Actually to be fair I think there is a classified rule for finishing 90% of the race so technically you won't be counted as a retirement most likely. However I suspect since those who have disconnected so far and had their AI finish have got no points and been considered a DSC, I suspect the admins would count from the point of the track where you disconnected as your last contribution to the race if it was on the last lap you got disconnected.
This is exactly right. Whether you disconnect or crash, you are classified based on what point in the race this happened. So if you DSC on lap 25 of a 28 lap race, you'd be classified as +4 Laps (since lap 24 was the final completed lap). Doesn't matter what the AI car did afterwards, as that wasn't you driving. However if you manage to join back in and keep driving then you are counted as part of the race again.

In case of this bug though; normally a DSQ would mean the driver is moved all the way to the bottom of the race result regardless of how much of the race was completed, however when the DSQ is completely bullshit like this, I'm sure we can count it as a normal DNF instead. So you won't lose anything by joining back in even if you get DSQ'ed on the last lap as you'd be classified from the last point you were an active part of the race. So in the case of the video @TheFlyingFinn08 linked to, that guy would be classified as +1 Lap, since he only completed 27 full laps of the race. It's harsh and very unlucky, but technically the drivers who drove the full 28 laps finished more of the race than him, and thus are classified ahead. We can't really speculate about where people may or may not have finished had the DSQ not happened. Regardless of how unlikely it is, for all we know that driver could have spun out of the final hairpin and destroyed his car in the wall (as an example), which also would have lead to a +1 Lap classification.

I assume the 90% thing being referred to is this:
DNF:
Drivers who complete less than 90% of the race distance will be classified as DNF (Did Not Finish) in the race results, and will score 0 points regardless of their final position.

Drivers who complete more than 90% of the race before accidentally crashing out or getting disconnected will be classified as a finisher, but only in the position the game awards them at the end of the race. Points will then be scored as per the system above.
But obviously, don't confuse this with "if you finish more than 90% of the race, you'll get whatever position you were in when you DNF'ed" - that's not what it means. You'll still be classified based on how many laps you finished (so if you DNF on lap 27, the drivers who finish 28 laps are classified ahead), you just won't be classed as "DNF" in table, and IF you somehow are still in a points position despite being X laps down (which is less likely on this game ofc with the bigger grids), you'd be awarded the points for that position.

Hope this made sense lol. :pigeon:
 

TheFlyingFinn08

4-time AOR XB1 F1 Champion
Aug 23, 2016
222
202
This is exactly right. Whether you disconnect or crash, you are classified based on what point in the race this happened. So if you DSC on lap 25 of a 28 lap race, you'd be classified as +4 Laps (since lap 24 was the final completed lap). Doesn't matter what the AI car did afterwards, as that wasn't you driving. However if you manage to join back in and keep driving then you are counted as part of the race again.

In case of this bug though; normally a DSQ would mean the driver is moved all the way to the bottom of the race result regardless of how much of the race was completed, however when the DSQ is completely bullshit like this, I'm sure we can count it as a normal DNF instead. So you won't lose anything by joining back in even if you get DSQ'ed on the last lap as you'd be classified from the last point you were an active part of the race. So in the case of the video @TheFlyingFinn08 linked to, that guy would be classified as +1 Lap, since he only completed 27 full laps of the race. It's harsh and very unlucky, but technically the drivers who drove the full 28 laps finished more of the race than him, and thus are classified ahead. We can't really speculate about where people may or may not have finished had the DSQ not happened. Regardless of how unlikely it is, for all we know that driver could have spun out of the final hairpin and destroyed his car in the wall (as an example), which also would have lead to a +1 Lap classification.

I assume the 90% thing being referred to is this:

But obviously, don't confuse this with "if you finish more than 90% of the race, you'll get whatever position you were in when you DNF'ed" - that's not what it means. You'll still be classified based on how many laps you finished (so if you DNF on lap 27, the drivers who finish 28 laps are classified ahead), you just won't be classed as "DNF" in table, and IF you somehow are still in a points position despite being X laps down (which is less likely on this game ofc with the bigger grids), you'd be awarded the points for that position.

Hope this made sense lol. :pigeon:

That makes perfect sense @FisiFan91 to be honest man but I'm not quite sure if you see it the way some of us see it, i'll put it out like this then maybe its easier to understand, (I apologise if I sound rude, maybe i just didnt explain it well earlier)

So we have 2 drivers in a 28 lap race, a Driver #1 and a Driver #2, both battling for 3rd place (for example)

Driver #1: This driver disconnects on lap 13, then by the time he joins back, its lap 14, he carries on, doesn't lose much places when disconnected because his AI drove round for him, and now he is currently going 4th behind Driver #2 who is 3rd...

Driver #2: This driver disconnects on lap 27/28 (last lap), then by the time he joins back the race is finished so his AI finished the race for him in 3rd place..

Notice that these two drivers were disconnected for the same amount of time, but with the rule you guys have, you're basically saying that Driver #2 will get demoted to finish +1 Lap behind because "the AI was driving not the driver itself" whereas Driver #1 will be promoted to 3rd even though at some point of the race "the AI was also driving and not the driver itself" , and both disconnected for the same amount of time?!?

How will that be fair on Driver #2? They disconnect for the same amount of time yet Driver #1 gets 3rd because he disconnected mid race instead of at the end..

This is something that needs to be thought about because its not like us guys can choose when to disconnect or not

Its very unlikely, yes, but we need to be 100% prepared for it.

Hope that made sense :)
 

FisiFan91

AOR Founder (on hiatus)
Staff member
AOR Admin
Jan 12, 2014
17,686
13,617
That makes perfect sense @FisiFan91 to be honest man but I'm not quite sure if you see it the way some of us see it, i'll put it out like this then maybe its easier to understand, (I apologise if I sound rude, maybe i just didnt explain it well earlier)

So we have 2 drivers in a 28 lap race, a Driver #1 and a Driver #2, both battling for 3rd place (for example)

Driver #1: This driver disconnects on lap 13, then by the time he joins back, its lap 14, he carries on, doesn't lose much places when disconnected because his AI drove round for him, and now he is currently going 4th behind Driver #2 who is 3rd...

Driver #2: This driver disconnects on lap 27/28 (last lap), then by the time he joins back the race is finished so his AI finished the race for him in 3rd place..

Notice that these two drivers were disconnected for the same amount of time, but with the rule you guys have, you're basically saying that Driver #2 will get demoted to finish +1 Lap behind because "the AI was driving not the driver itself" whereas Driver #1 will be promoted to 3rd even though at some point of the race "the AI was also driving and not the driver itself" , and both disconnected for the same amount of time?!?

How will that be fair on Driver #2? They disconnect for the same amount of time yet Driver #1 gets 3rd because he disconnected mid race instead of at the end..

This is something that needs to be thought about because its not like us guys can choose when to disconnect or not

Its very unlikely, yes, but we need to be 100% prepared for it.

Hope that made sense :)
It makes sense, but nothing we can really do about that to make it completely fair. Regardless of when people disconnect, they will lose something, and it comes down to luck & bad luck in the end as to when you disconnect, how much time you lose, whether or not you are able to get back in and continue, etc. Remember, on all of the old games (and in lobbies set to "invite only", which most of our leagues are) you couldn't get back in the race at all so a DSC was 100% a DNF regardless of when it happened. The only fair solution would be going back to that, but I have a feeling people don't want that.
 

LuckyDog2000

F1 Test Driver
Mar 21, 2016
459
217
This is exactly right. Whether you disconnect or crash, you are classified based on what point in the race this happened. So if you DSC on lap 25 of a 28 lap race, you'd be classified as +4 Laps (since lap 24 was the final completed lap). Doesn't matter what the AI car did afterwards, as that wasn't you driving. However if you manage to join back in and keep driving then you are counted as part of the race again.

In case of this bug though; normally a DSQ would mean the driver is moved all the way to the bottom of the race result regardless of how much of the race was completed, however when the DSQ is completely bullshit like this, I'm sure we can count it as a normal DNF instead. So you won't lose anything by joining back in even if you get DSQ'ed on the last lap as you'd be classified from the last point you were an active part of the race. So in the case of the video @TheFlyingFinn08 linked to, that guy would be classified as +1 Lap, since he only completed 27 full laps of the race. It's harsh and very unlucky, but technically the drivers who drove the full 28 laps finished more of the race than him, and thus are classified ahead. We can't really speculate about where people may or may not have finished had the DSQ not happened. Regardless of how unlikely it is, for all we know that driver could have spun out of the final hairpin and destroyed his car in the wall (as an example), which also would have lead to a +1 Lap classification.

I assume the 90% thing being referred to is this:

But obviously, don't confuse this with "if you finish more than 90% of the race, you'll get whatever position you were in when you DNF'ed" - that's not what it means. You'll still be classified based on how many laps you finished (so if you DNF on lap 27, the drivers who finish 28 laps are classified ahead), you just won't be classed as "DNF" in table, and IF you somehow are still in a points position despite being X laps down (which is less likely on this game ofc with the bigger grids), you'd be awarded the points for that position.

Hope this made sense lol. :pigeon:
I think this doesn't make sense. Why would you add a lap to someone when they disconnect and can't do anything to rejoin back, and yet when a person can join back they don't get a lap added on. It's not like they gain anything when they disconnect and they're AI car takes control, the AI difficulty so they won't gain anything. For example, CRL Hamilton at Bahrain was in 8th right in front of me then disconnected. At the end of the race he was classified 16th. That's how slow the Legend AI is, he lost so much time after disconnecting there wouldn't be a point giving him an extra lap. Also, let's say there's somebody leading a race and disconnect after they take the first corner and their AI car keeps going and wins the race for them, it wouldn't be fair because their car is still racing on track, the AI car is really slow and won't gain anything, it's not on ultimate, and also the person who was leading and disconnected and had the pace deserved the win, why else would they be in the front. Hopefully you understand and I think I have forgotten some points
 
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FisiFan91

AOR Founder (on hiatus)
Staff member
AOR Admin
Jan 12, 2014
17,686
13,617
the person who was leading and disconnected and had the pace deserved the win
Maybe they deserved it, but this is how the results work - if you don't get to the end of the race, you are classified behind the people who did. It's how it's always been.

But it sounds like you want us to count the result that the AI driver of disconnected drivers manage to get in the race? Are the rest of you of a similar opinion? If you are then I'll bring that up in the coordinator forum and see what they think.
 

Jason97F1

GP2 2nd Driver
Jan 13, 2014
390
200
But it sounds like you want us to count the result that the AI driver of disconnected drivers manage to get in the race? Are the rest of you of a similar opinion? If you are then I'll bring that up in the coordinator forum and see what they think.
No. IMO if someone's AI car finishes the race without them controlling it they should be classed as a DNF/DSC and put behind everyone who actually finished no matter when they DSC'd. I don't really get some people saying it's unfair if someone can't join back in time and losing out a lot more than someone who could rejoin. Of course, it's terribly unlucky but how is it unfair? There can't be two different rules for the same thing just because it happened later in the race.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Seiyariu

TheFlyingFinn08

4-time AOR XB1 F1 Champion
Aug 23, 2016
222
202
But it sounds like you want us to count the result that the AI driver of disconnected drivers manage to get in the race?
Hey man, thats not what we're saying. We're saying that it doesn't make sense for you to count the result of someone disconnecting mid race, the AI driving for that guy for a few laps, then once he joins back he can carry on with his race like nothing happened and get nothing added on his finishing time, although his AI drove for him..

YET, you won't count someone's result who disconnected the last lap or two, and he is unable to join back in his car, because of the same reason, the AI driving a few laps for him..

Yes, you guys might not think its fair to count someone's result because of the AI finishing the race for him, but then again, using that logic, why count someone's result if the AI drove a few laps for him at some point during the race too? Its not like the AI finishing the race is any different to the AI driving mid race..

Dont get me wrong, i love the join back feature, and i want it to be used throughout the season but some things need to be tweaked up to make it fair, the AI being on LEGEND Difficulty is making the driver lose time anyway, so adding laps onto his time because the guy disconnected at a point where he cant return, its not fair, we cant pick and choose when to disconnect.

Also another point, going back to what @Ycoms said couple days ago about some people might try and disconnect on purpose with 2-3 laps to go to let their AI finish the race to avoid a puncture; 1- if someone's tyres are that bad, their AI car will automatically be pulled into the pits by the race engineer, and 2- you dont have to disconnect to avoid a puncture, you can pause the game and the AI will drive round for you anyway without anyone knowing, and 3- The legend AI are like 3-4 seconds slower anyway so why would anyone do that as the driver itself can drive a bit faster than that pace and still avoid a puncture..

I hope this is something we can change for the future because having this join back feature is awesome for league racing, but we shouldnt be penalised for disconnecting at the wrong time, sorry, this is my opinion of course, but i know for sure that there are at least 4-5 people agreeing with me so far..

Thank you for your time
 
  • Agree
Reactions: LuckyDog2000

Seiyariu

AOR XB1 F1 Commentator
Jun 23, 2014
245
187
I can see both sides of the argument here and to be honest I'm not particularly bothered about which way it goes as I don't think it will happen too often, if at all. Although if I did disconnect on the last lap and couldn't get back in in time, it would be nice if the results counted where the AI finished, else the previous 9X% of the race would have all been for nothing.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: TheFlyingFinn08

TheFlyingFinn08

4-time AOR XB1 F1 Champion
Aug 23, 2016
222
202
I can see both sides of the argument here and to be honest I'm not particularly bothered about which way it goes as I don't think it will happen too often, if at all. Although if I did disconnect on the last lap and couldn't get back in in time, it would be nice if the results counted where the AI finished, else the previous 9X% of the race would have all been for nothing.
Thank you! Also its not just the case of not being able to join back in time, its the case of the game not letting you join back on the last lap, so you HAVE to let the AI finish the race, there's no other way or the game DSQ's you for taking over..

This is why i dont get why we get a lap added on for not being able to join back on the last lap, yet if we disconnected mid race, we can join back with no issues, and get no lap added on our time :D
 

LuckyDog2000

F1 Test Driver
Mar 21, 2016
459
217
Thank you! Also its not just the case of not being able to join back in time, its the case of the game not letting you join back on the last lap, so you HAVE to let the AI finish the race, there's no other way or the game DSQ's you for taking over..

This is why i dont get why we get a lap added on for not being able to join back on the last lap, yet if we disconnected mid race, we can join back with no issues, and get no lap added on our time :D
Going on to what you're saying, there's an AI car racing on track for a reason, why else would it be implemented, it's to make the feature useful
 
  • Agree
Reactions: TheFlyingFinn08

FisiFan91

AOR Founder (on hiatus)
Staff member
AOR Admin
Jan 12, 2014
17,686
13,617
Yes, you guys might not think its fair to count someone's result because of the AI finishing the race for him, but then again, using that logic, why count someone's result if the AI drove a few laps for him at some point during the race too? Its not like the AI finishing the race is any different to the AI driving mid race..

Dont get me wrong, i love the join back feature, and i want it to be used throughout the season but some things need to be tweaked up to make it fair, the AI being on LEGEND Difficulty is making the driver lose time anyway, so adding laps onto his time because the guy disconnected at a point where he cant return, its not fair, we cant pick and choose when to disconnect.
So either you have to add laps on for the drivers who disconnect & reconnect mid-race (making it kinda pointless to join back in) or you count the AI result of the drivers who disconnect and don't come back in (which you said isn't what you are asking for). So how would we make this fair? Is there a third solution here that I'm missing?
 

TheFlyingFinn08

4-time AOR XB1 F1 Champion
Aug 23, 2016
222
202
So either you have to add laps on for the drivers who disconnect & reconnect mid-race (making it kinda pointless to join back in) or you count the AI result of the drivers who disconnect and don't come back in (which you said isn't what you are asking for). So how would we make this fair? Is there a third solution here that I'm missing?
I'm basically trying to say that if you are counting people's final results of those 'who disconnected mid race and their AI drove for them for a couple laps', then it doesnt make sense to not count people's final results of those 'who disconnected a lap or two before the end, and they couldn't rejoin' .

All in all i'm saying that; if someone disconnects mid race, joins back after their AI drove a few laps for them, and then gets classified normally, why couldnt that be applied to someone who disconnects at the end of the race and their AI finish the last lap or two for them?

I thinks its 100% fair to count people's AI finishing result because people are gonna randomly disconnect, and them disconnecting is already gonna make them lose time because the drivers are 3-4 seconds faster than the AI cars, so its not like someone will be purposely disconnecting to gain an advantage!

I just dont see how it makes sense to classify 'someone that could miss a few laps mid race after disconnecting', as a normal result, yet not applying the same rule to 'someone who could disconnect at the very end of the race', and he/she can do nothing to rejoin?
 
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AndreBCF1997

Formula 3 Test Driver
Apr 7, 2015
187
108
I'm basically trying to say that if you are counting people's final results of those 'who disconnected mid race and their AI drove for them for a couple laps', then it doesnt make sense to not count people's final results of those 'who disconnected a lap or two before the end, and they couldn't rejoin' .

All in all i'm saying that; if someone disconnects mid race, joins back after their AI drove a few laps for them, and then gets classified normally, why couldnt that be applied to someone who disconnects at the end of the race and their AI finish the last lap or two for them?

I thinks its 100% fair to count people's AI finishing result because people are gonna randomly disconnect, and them disconnecting is already gonna make them lose time because the drivers are 3-4 seconds faster than the AI cars, so its not like someone will be purposely disconnecting to gain an advantage!

I just dont see how it makes sense to classify 'someone that could miss a few laps mid race after disconnecting', as a normal result, yet not applying the same rule to 'someone who could disconnect at the very end of the race', and he/she can do nothing to rejoin?
Couldn't agree more :)
 

FisiFan91

AOR Founder (on hiatus)
Staff member
AOR Admin
Jan 12, 2014
17,686
13,617
I thinks its 100% fair to count people's AI finishing result because people are gonna randomly disconnect, and them disconnecting is already gonna make them lose time because the drivers are 3-4 seconds faster than the AI cars, so its not like someone will be purposely disconnecting to gain an advantage!
Um, ok. I think I got confused when you said "that's not when we're saying" above when I suggested exactly that.
 

TheFlyingFinn08

4-time AOR XB1 F1 Champion
Aug 23, 2016
222
202
Apologies for the confusion, I think i mis-understood the implication of what you had said about that :p

Do you think you guys could possibly have a discussion about letting any of the AI finishing result be the final result rather than classifying drivers as an X amount of laps behind? If so, I'd appreciate that :)

If you or @Ycoms have 5-10 minutes to spare this week, i can happily come on party chat / skype (etc...) to explain it in more detail and clearer :D

I can't lie, I do fear of this disconnection happening to me, not gonna blank that out, but I also don't wanna take advantage in certain races just because someone disconnected, my effort to explain all this on here is for 'fair play', i wanna make sure no one gets affected by this, (including other tiers too)
 

Ycoms

Double AOR iRacing GTE Champion
Mar 4, 2015
2,182
1,868
@HCR Cupid came up with a very smart idea: Using the new club function on Xbox to help coordinating the races (invites, issues with joining, no-shows etc.). I just created one and also sent invites to everyone. Please make sure that you've got the latest Xbox update, otherwise you won't be able to join the club.