PC - Discussion about track limits | ApexOnlineRacing.com

PC Discussion about track limits


DaWu

AOR PC GT3 Semi-Pro S8 Champion
May 22, 2017
715
474
@Ironik
Real driver cant "see" them cutting aswell and get punished.
Driving incar cam is not an excuse, @AndrexUK and me driving outside and we both didnt saw every single of our small cuts aswell!
And you've got a better awarness of your car inside. Also the renault bonnet is way shorter than the BMWs and AMGs, and still BMWs are able to stay clean even when its harder to get it right with a longer bonnet. Also VR is giving you even more awareness and feel for your car^^

Its not "cheating" i guess bcs you were not doing intentional.
But you still drove against the rules.
So you maybe go and make sure for the next races to check the dimensions of your car to stay clean. (no i'm not telling you you're bad!!!! you're 10 years above my skill normaly)


OTHER Games:
iRacing is using the official boundaries as far as they know them.
But 99% of the track its just as everywhere the white lines.
And iRacing is very VERY strict in it.

pCars 2 isnt as good as other games with the penaltys and you also can abuse the system in some tracks... thats why its kind of a problem to just use them.


@Nagrom yeah that could be a good one,
BUT you volunteer for checking the tracks to its maximum and make a driverbreefing?
If not, yeah some one has to do that... and we cant lay that just on the coordinators shoulders.
 

Tidgney

Formula 4 Reserve Driver
Nov 13, 2016
99
144
Mate, I'm very, very impressed. I'm impressed by @Nagrom too by the way.
You are really gifted, that's for sure.
Still, I don't really like what you are implying. I tried to be as clean as possible too and I'm quite confident than most of us tried too. ;)
If I wanted to cut, I would have really cut the chicane not correcting my trajectory at the last second. ^^
Extending a corner while losing time is not an advantage at all. Still, I'll be penalized for that.
Cutting the chicane because it started to rain and I was too cautious and sadly by muscle memory, I turned in to early, is not an advantage. I lost 0.400s doing this.
Still, I'll be punished for that. I could continue but it will change nothing.
Anyway, I agree I'm at fault here, I cut the white lines 10 times. I agree on that.

I'd like to have half your talent but I don't. :)

Cheers :)
I'm not implying anything... The thing anyone who has a cut (Which includes me) has to say to themselves is if you were given e.g. 25 slowdowns by the game for those 25 cuts would you have really taken the same line? Or would you have gone a lot more cautious? If the answer is you would have happily taken the 25 slowdowns then yes argue, but in reality everyone knows that you (Not just you everyone) would be far more cautious because 25 slowdowns would be well over 25 seconds lost. I think that's what AOR are trying to say..

Literally 30 minutes before the race I was on time trial mode abusing track limits to get the fastest line.. I use a camera angle where I can see the width of the car.. Tex wheeler made a very good point in that cockpit view is more obstructive and a little harder, but I assume AOR still view that as you still have to know how big your car is. Personally I was very cautious in the race because;

A) I know how strict it is here at AOR which I like and is a rule
B) I think 3 different people said during qualifying, before the race, warmup lap, and also one person mentioning to tudesertpac (Lap 2 or 3) regarding track limits and make sure you abide by them.

Can I also mention that some people did turn OFF the stream because they saw cutting... I know of 2, but even 2 is to many. This had a massive impact at ESL with cutting as it emptied the audience area.
 
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Ironik

F1 Senna Equivalent
Jul 20, 2016
1,267
705
@Ironik
Real driver cant "see" them cutting aswell and get punished.
Please, don't go this way... You know you're wrong about reality. ;)
Do you really think real drivers are punished for cutting the white lines from an inche or two ?
It must be blatant and they have to blatantly gain an advantage.
Which seem to not be the case anymore here. A cut is a cut.

Driving incar cam is not an excuse, @AndrexUK and me driving outside and we both didnt saw every single of our small cuts aswell!
Did I say it was an excuse ?
Don't you think there is a problem if you're being punished for something you thought you were doing well and was even harmful for your laptime ?

And you've got a better awarness of your car inside. Also the renault bonnet is way shorter than the BMWs and AMGs, and still BMWs are able to stay clean even when its harder to get it right with a longer bonnet. Also VR is giving you even more awareness and feel for your car^^
This is not true. Do you want to play a game with me ? :D

Its not "cheating" i guess bcs you were not doing intentional.
But you still drove against the rules.
So you maybe go and make sure for the next races to check the dimensions of your car to stay clean. (no i'm not telling you you're bad!!!! you're 10 years above my skill normaly)
I never said the contrary. I'm talking about the rules not about my punishment.


OTHER Games:
iRacing is using the official boundaries as far as they know them.
But 99% of the track its just as everywhere the white lines.
And iRacing is very VERY strict in it.
I'll have to test it myself I guess. I'm quite sure I saw blatant cutting without penaly. I'm probably wrong though as I've never tried it ^^

pCars 2 isnt as good as other games with the penaltys and you also can abuse the system in some tracks... thats why its kind of a problem to just use them.
pCARS 2 is detecting if you gained something out of the cut. If you don't, you won't have a warning.


@Nagrom yeah that could be a good one,
BUT you volunteer for checking the tracks to its maximum and make a driverbreefing?
If not, yeah some one has to do that... and we cant lay that just on the coordinators shoulders.[/QUOTE]

I don't have such problem around other tracks / Other corners. I didn't cut the second chicane ONCE.
I knew I extend some but I thought that it won't count as a cut if you didn't gained an advantage. I was wrong.
 

Ironik

F1 Senna Equivalent
Jul 20, 2016
1,267
705
I'm not implying anything... The thing anyone who has a cut (Which includes me) has to say to themselves is if you were given e.g. 25 slowdowns by the game for those 25 cuts would you have really taken the same line? Or would you have gone a lot more cautious? If the answer is you would have happily taken the 25 slowdowns then yes argue, but in reality everyone knows that you (Not just you everyone) would be far more cautious because 25 slowdowns would be well over 25 seconds lost. I think that's what AOR are trying to say..

Literally 30 minutes before the race I was on time trial mode abusing track limits to get the fastest line.. I use a camera angle where I can see the width of the car.. Tex wheeler made a very good point in that cockpit view is more obstructive and a little harder, but I assume AOR still view that as you still have to know how big your car is. Personally I was very cautious in the race because;

A) I know how strict it is here at AOR which I like and is a rule
B) I think 3 different people said during qualifying, before the race, warmup lap, and also one person mentioning to tudesertpac (Lap 2 or 3) regarding track limits and make sure you abide by them.

Can I also mention that some people did turn OFF the stream because they saw cutting... I know of 2, but even 2 is to many. This had a massive impact at ESL with cutting as it emptied the audience area.
Ok, I get your point. Fair enough.
My problem is mainly on Zolder first chicane though, as I COULDN'T see I was cutting.
I agree for other turns.
 
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Evidence

Formula 4 2nd Driver
Feb 6, 2018
126
96
I've seen plenty of races in iRacing / raceroom / AC where the guys put more than 2 tyres outside the white lines and not being punished.
Show me one of those iRacing examples where the driver is not getting a x1 after some track extending/cutting, maybe we play/watch different games.
 
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DaWu

AOR PC GT3 Semi-Pro S8 Champion
May 22, 2017
715
474
@Ironik

-Yes they get punished for crossing the line to often.
in every single sport where the rules are not as low as in V8 supercars or Nascar and when there is a "white line" rule.

-you're saying multiple times "i could not see me cutting"
That counts for all of us and others fixed it (i cutted in the practice race a lot and some one tolde me, so i went in for more practice and fixed it).
2-3 + 2 lifts vs 10+ with no lift is a difference isnt it?

-There is a reason a lot of guys use the incar cam with "special" FOVs ;)
So yeah you CAN controll your car better and with VR you're on a medium skill lvl even faster then others.
When it comes to TOP TOP TOP class racing a Tripple monitor is bette (but that is still in discussion what is faster or "better")
BUT VR or Tripplescreen makes you 100% race "better" as guys using 1 screen and outside cam in the end.
MAYBE due to pCars beeing a bit more "simcade" it can be better driving outside but that just comes when you're driving it like a simcade.
If you drive it like a sim its better to use VR or tripple+ incar.

-arent you racing to the rule for atleast 2 seasons now? or 1 3/4? so you're aware of it and YOU just need to adapt and not change the rule.

- wo ever "blatan" is xD
if its an iRacing driver, yeah iracing got some tracks and corners where the line is wider than "normal" and its allowed.
Same as the real GT racing is.

-Maybe but cutting is also "not slowing down enough to make it right"
Lets say we're in an 10h endurance race on Le Mans.
And you just always cut both chicanes but slowed down enough to not get an advantage.
You safe tires, engin, brakes, fuel, you'll never outbrake yourself and need to slow down even more to make the corner, you'll never get overtaken bcs you brake late and go straight anyway.
So cutting is ALWAY doing somehting wrong.

And in pCars 2 there are some penaltys who just go away ( and we both know what ).
AND if you get a "slow down" you dont need to slow down that 1,5 sec or what ever it takes.
A lift is enough and you can let the stewards remove your penalty.
Isnt that way better than slowing down for 1,5 sec just bcs you want to drive "on the edge" ?
 
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Def

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
AC Coordinator
Premium Member
Jun 3, 2016
5,231
4,622
Listen man, my point is acceptable because it's mine and I'm free to say what I think. You can disagree with it and tell me why you disagree. I could even agree with you at the end of a constructive discussion, man.

It's a game. There is nothing to win. It's meant to be fun.
Of course you are free to voice your opinion. I didn’t mean to come across nastily, I said unacceptable in that fun has nothing to do when we talk about rules.

So you're basically saying that I'm a cheater ?

I try to respect them in the first place. Problem is that I don't know when I cut. It's impossible to know for sure
Tbh I don’t even know who’s involved in enquiries or not, I’m speaking generally as it’s a discussion I’m very used to.

I doubt you don’t know when you cut. Basically you know how large your car is? For sure it’s easy to be on the limit and you don’t know exactly if you cut or not, in such instances why take the risk and not ease off a tiny bit?

So, obviously, you have to know when you cut if you want to stop doing it.
Yes. That goes without saying, so after 1 or 2 enquiries in the tier you should in theory pay more attention

Yeah I'm lazy. Don't be rude please, no need for that. ;)
Ironique
I’m not rude at all! At least I don’t mean to be. Not aiming you specifically
 
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SmokingPuppy841

Really Useful Person
Oct 24, 2016
2,233
832
Would it help anyone if I specifically create a YT video that help explain the Track Limits,with some examples,or should I use my time for better things.
 

Ironik

F1 Senna Equivalent
Jul 20, 2016
1,267
705
Here, we can see how fair that system is :

I did review all the field, like @AndrexUK did but, obviously, my inquiry has been rejected because too late whereas Andrex can take all the time he wants (That's a good thing for the equity, I'm all for it).

So now, only the top 5 will be punished whereas the guys behind did cut but won't be punished. How fair is that ?

@DaWu , I won't argue with you anymore as you're obviously trolling. Simcade, special FOV, gaining time while understeering badly or making a mistake... yeah, right. :rolleyes:
 

Nagrom

Premium Member
Premium Member
Feb 26, 2018
513
446
@Ironik AndrexUK posted before the 48h limit I think, am I wrong ?

"So now, only the top 5 will be punished whereas the guys behind did cut but won't be punished. How fair is that ?"
=> I agree, I think either the one reporting should analyse everyone, or he should warn them early, so they can check other people too if they want.

I agree with you that cutting doesn't always mean gaining time, as some may say.
BUT, most of the time you are gaining time: either because you gained time on this specific corner, or because you are overall pushing closer to the limit, which allows you to go faster (and sometimes makes you cut).
The problem is, it's quite difficult to assess, that's why Stewards are considering that if you cut too often, you need to be penalized.

If once every 2 laps, you cut the track because of bad understeer (and loose time as you say), well, at one point you just need to brake earlier and/or take the corner slower.
If you don't do it, it's either because:
1) you're making a bad decision because you're not trying to fix an obviously wrong racing line
2) you think you'll be too slow if you brake earlier / carry less speed. But in that case, that means you actually gained time when cutting !

I was here talking for a general case, not yours specifically.

In your case, I understand that the problem is that it was difficult for you to know when you cut, and didn't want to spend too much time watching your replay to check whether you cut or not. But with the actual rules, I think there's no way around it. Yeah, it's not the funniest part, but you can't have only fun when racing in a real competitive environment.
 
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Mr. Van Ommen

Formula 3 Reserve Driver
Feb 4, 2018
226
196
Sooooo I'll say my opinion here, to answer all the "this hunt is getting ridiculous blablabla":

1) AOR Rules are strict on cutting: if you go over the lines, you need to lift in a visible way for 2 reasons :
  • Negates the advantage gained if any
  • Be able to prove that you lifted : So even if you gained only 1 tenth, you need to slow down enough so it's clearly visible !
As it's your fault for going over the lines, you're guilty by default unless you prove you lost a consequent amount of time.

When registering in AOR league, you know the rules, so you have to stick with it.
I'm doing another Pcars 2 league where we only use the ingame penalty system, and there I'm cutting the track as much as the game allows me. But it's not unfair, because it's in the rules that everyone is allowed to do so !

2) Some guys like me, knowing the rules, practice a lot to have good laptimes without cutting the track. It's your problem if you didn't.
You want to be fast ? Practice.
You don't want to practice ? Go slower in order to avoid cutting.

Don't you think it's unfair for guys who put a lot of efforts to respect the track limit when others are cutting ?
Cutting allows you to:
  • Gain time
  • Have an easier line
  • Take more risk to be on the limit (hence gaining time overall)
3) When track limits are walls instead of white lines, you don't go over track limits do you ? You practice so you don't hit the wall, or you go slowly to be sure not to hit the wall.
Well, do the same with white lines !

Or maybe you are saying to the wall :
"Come on why are you damaging my car, I only went 10 cm too far !"
"Please don't slow me down little wall, I got too close because I was pushing to the limit, it wasn't my intention !"

4) If plenty of drivers are unhappy with this, we could ask it to be changed for next season ? Honestly I'd prefer that we let the game handle corner cutting, it would be much easier. So if my opinion was asked for next season, I'd say we allow cutting as long as the game allows it.
BUT for now there are rules and we must follow them.

(I don't know if a poll or something like that can be done for next season ?)

I am one of the high scoring players in the corner cutting poll for the elite league, just to get that out of the way =)

During practice I have been doing a stint with all the cutting the game allows me to do, as well as a stint in which I figured I would be free from doing it.
That did cost me quite some time, so that is clear. During the event itself I also went safer and slower through the chicanes, but apperantly not safe enough to not cut. I have not been re-counting the cuts I have been charged with, but I would assume most of them are very tiny cuts. I should have watched a replay or something to make sure that I knew how far I could go using the roof-cam. Misjudgement from my side.

However, now that the inquiry research is completed, the conclusion is that all 22 participants had cuts. Some had a lot, some did not have too much.
But the conclusion you could make out of this, as everybody knows the rules (Moderators included), no one completely followed them.

What I am curious about is the penalties that will be handed to the players.
One of the points I raised in the inquiry itself is that pure counting would probably not represent the actual advantages taken.
I saw people taking care and still cutting and I saw people who clearly used the ingame penalty system on every chicane. (As I did a small review as well)
Obviously it probably looks like I'm preaching for my own good here seen the amount of cuts I had, but ill just accept if that's the general thought which is fair enough.

Anyway, if the complete field, including the moderators, get a DQ for round 8, I'd say it would save 30 (22 for this race though) people to train/make setups, not to mention the research done on the cuts and an evening of commentating if the rules are bend for races like Zolder. It would get my vote.

Mr. Van Ommen
 

Ironik

F1 Senna Equivalent
Jul 20, 2016
1,267
705
@Ironik AndrexUK posted before the 48h limit I think, am I wrong ?

"So now, only the top 5 will be punished whereas the guys behind did cut but won't be punished. How fair is that ?"
=> I agree, I think either the one reporting should analyse everyone, or he should warn them early, so they can check other people too if they want.

I agree with you that cutting doesn't always mean gaining time, as some may say.
BUT, most of the time you are gaining time: either because you gained time on this specific corner, or because you are overall pushing closer to the limit, which allows you to go faster (and sometimes makes you cut).
The problem is, it's quite difficult to assess, that's why Stewards are considering that if you cut too often, you need to be penalized.

If once every 2 laps, you cut the track because of bad understeer (and loose time as you say), well, at one point you just need to brake earlier and/or take the corner slower.
If you don't do it, it's either because:
1) you're making a bad decision because you're not trying to fix an obviously wrong racing line
2) you think you'll be too slow if you brake earlier / carry less speed. But in that case, that means you actually gained time when cutting !

I was here talking for a general case, not yours specifically.

In your case, I understand that the problem is that it was difficult for you to know when you cut, and didn't want to spend too much time watching your replay to check whether you cut or not. But with the actual rules, I think there's no way around it. Yeah, it's not the funniest part, but you can't have only fun when racing in a real competitive environment.
Andrex posted the initial inquiry just before the deadline. He then added all the others drivers from Elite. See the last editing timestamp ;)
Anyway, I just have to bit the bullet. I wasted my saturday for nothing and it leaves a bitter taste.
The season is almost finished and I've already lost the championship so... I just have to let this go. :)

Someone understeering and extending the track is not gaining any time. He's losing time, wearing his tyres, has the risk of going straight in a wall or in the sand.
This guy is already punishing himself why punishing him even more ?

Still, you made a good point. I understand now that the stewards cant review each cut to see if the driver actually gained time or not. I didn't think about that.
It might be doable for a driver or two but not for 40.

Thanks Nagrom ;)
 

Ironik

F1 Senna Equivalent
Jul 20, 2016
1,267
705
I am one of the high scoring players in the corner cutting poll for the elite league, just to get that out of the way =)

During practice I have been doing a stint with all the cutting the game allows me to do, as well as a stint in which I figured I would be free from doing it.
That did cost me quite some time, so that is clear. During the event itself I also went safer and slower through the chicanes, but apperantly not safe enough to not cut. I have not been re-counting the cuts I have been charged with, but I would assume most of them are very tiny cuts. I should have watched a replay or something to make sure that I knew how far I could go using the roof-cam. Misjudgement from my side.

However, now that the inquiry research is completed, the conclusion is that all 22 participants had cuts. Some had a lot, some did not have too much.
But the conclusion you could make out of this, as everybody knows the rules (Moderators included), no one completely followed them.

What I am curious about is the penalties that will be handed to the players.
One of the points I raised in the inquiry itself is that pure counting would probably not represent the actual advantages taken.
I saw people taking care and still cutting and I saw people who clearly used the ingame penalty system on every chicane. (As I did a small review as well)
Obviously it probably looks like I'm preaching for my own good here seen the amount of cuts I had, but ill just accept if that's the general thought which is fair enough.

Anyway, if the complete field, including the moderators, get a DQ for round 8, I'd say it would save 30 (22 for this race though) people to train/make setups, not to mention the research done on the cuts and an evening of commentating if the rules are bend for races like Zolder. It would get my vote.

Mr. Van Ommen
At least, all the drivers have been reviewed thanks to @AndrexUK 's work.
I reckon he could have done the same as @DaWu and just check the top guys.
That would be even more harmful for them.
 

Nagrom

Premium Member
Premium Member
Feb 26, 2018
513
446
Someone understeering and extending the track is not gaining any time. He's losing time, wearing his tyres, has the risk of going straight in a wall or in the sand.
This guy is already punishing himself why punishing him even more ?
Still, you made a good point. I understand now that the stewards cant review each cut to see if the driver actually gained time or not. I didn't think about that.
It might be doable for a driver or two but not for 40.

Thanks Nagrom ;)
Yeah that's basically the reason. Yes he may have already punished himself by loosing time, but it's too much time consuming for stewards to analyse each driver in detail.
That's why the rules say (summary) : If you go over track limit, you must not gain time and/or lift to negate time gained. If you didn't gained time, you won't be penalized. However, if you do it too often, you'll be penalized anyway, because it's too much work to analyse all the cuts.

(At least, that's the way I understand things, I'm no steward ^^)
 
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DaWu

AOR PC GT3 Semi-Pro S8 Champion
May 22, 2017
715
474
@Ironik is pCars2 your only and first simracing game? :unsure:

Why pCars 2 is a bit simcade:
-drifiting around courners is faster than driving it properly :rofl: <- thats just WRONG :shifty:! Try other sims driving that style (y) you'll not have fun.
-tires rly dont care if you drift or lock up
-Pros race "outside" cam :rofl: what a sim <3

That just makes the car "simcade" when you see TT guys and Pros race and drive.
You cant drift a real car around the corners, thats not normal and no one would do that!
But pCars 2 is rewarding you for that, if thats not wrong what is it then???


FOV looks strange sometimes and its a bit special aswell so again no troll


For iRacing video:

Yeah T1 exit isnt to strict.
Look at iRacings Monza ;) there you can cut almost every corner.
But they do it in the real world aswell so its "normal".
And you may see some changes bcs Blancpain is stricter now.




@Mr. Van Ommen Tidgney only had 4 cuts so there will not be a DSQ for him (y)
And i only think the guys with the most cuts will get DSQ.
 

Ironik

F1 Senna Equivalent
Jul 20, 2016
1,267
705
@Ironik is pCars2 your only and first simracing game? :unsure:

Why pCars 2 is a bit simcade:
-drifiting around courners is faster than driving it properly :rofl: <- thats just WRONG :shifty:! Try other sims driving that style (y) you'll not have fun.
-tires rly dont care if you drift or lock up
-Pros race "outside" cam :rofl: what a sim <3

That just makes the car "simcade" when you see TT guys and Pros race and drive.
You cant drift a real car around the corners, thats not normal and no one would do that!
But pCars 2 is rewarding you for that, if thats not wrong what is it then???
:troll:


FOV looks strange sometimes and its a bit special aswell so again no troll
I know the FOV very well as I was driving single (small) screen before. That's not helping judging if you cut or not.
There is no FOV in VR by the way.
So again, you're just trolling.

For iRacing video:

Yeah T1 exit isnt to strict.
Look at iRacings Monza ;) there you can cut almost every corner.
But they do it in the real world aswell so its "normal".
And you may see some changes bcs Blancpain is stricter now.
But a cut is a cut right? ;)
 
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AndrexUK

3 times PC Project Cars 2 Champion
May 6, 2015
5,755
5,589
Yeah that's basically the reason. Yes he may have already punished himself by loosing time, but it's too much time consuming for stewards to analyse each driver in detail.
That's why the rules say (summary) : If you go over track limit, you must not gain time and/or lift to negate time gained. If you didn't gained time, you won't be penalized. However, if you do it too often, you'll be penalized anyway, because it's too much work to analyse all the cuts.

Essentially this ^
Took me about 8 hours to watch over the Elite league, and that's with help from N1kMido + Iceberg.
And that's just the 'simple' version of cut/no cut + lift/no lift.
There was a total of 492? (lost count...) and if you think we have the time to analyse every single cut in terms of gain / no gain, then I'm afraid you are mistaken.

If you look at the inquiry against me, and you see how much/little I actually cut (essentially all cuts were within a tire width at worst, most are probably a couple of cm's over. And it's very frustrating that my cuts, are considered the same as someone like Iceman / etc, BUT, I can't see any fairer way of managing it. (It shouldn't really be happening in the first place (and yes, I am aware of the fact that even I did it myself - There is no real excuse (especially the under-steering one....).
There is a tolorence as to how many cuts you can have before any penalty is given - and that limit is not 0 - so we allow for the occasional mistake / etc.
But when ppl are in the region of 15 + cuts over 37 laps, that is not a mistake - That is essentially not being careful enough (or not reviewing your own replay before the race (as per my case), or (more likely) trying to get away with it!

I didn't even bother doing a compare of time gained from cutting or not, as it's essentially irrelevant anyway (I'm confident I could gain 1 sec per lap by cutting in the places that others used), as it's not purely about gaining or not.
it's about breaking the rule of going over the track limits.
Going over that white line is a result of carrying too much speed, which if you are carrying more speed than you should, that's an unfair advantage.
Yes, maybe you loose 0.1 on the exit from going over the bumps / being unstable! But you might be gaining 0.3s on the entry (or vice versa).

Again, we allow for the odd mistake here and there, but if you do it, and don't adjust, then that's the same as doing it intentionally.


FYI - I believe in Elite - 9 drivers will be DQ'd
And about 6+ will get a Qually ban for Bathurst.
And about 6 will get time penalties added to their race time.
(Can't remember the exact figures)
 

DaWu

AOR PC GT3 Semi-Pro S8 Champion
May 22, 2017
715
474
@Ironik you never can acually SEE yourself cutting in a closed top GT car.
bcs you cant see your tires and the track right in front of you.
VR and FOV just helps you to know where your car is.
SO it just improves your feeling for your car in long terms :)

"a cut is a cut"
In AOR YES every time you left the white lines its a cut.
In real sports and other sims no ;), the tracklimits are not always the white lines.