My Track Limit Abuse | ApexOnlineRacing.com

My Track Limit Abuse


aalliigg

3-time AOR PC Split 1 Champion
Premium Member
Jan 13, 2014
242
53
So, it has come to my attention (unfortunately not directly to me) that some people are not happy with my use (or lack thereof) of the track limits at Silverstone.

I'm not going to fight it too much, but I will explain how it came about and I will then tell you what I am going to do about it.

I think it came about because I was very cautious on this topic last season, which of course was my first season with ARL / AOR. This season I decided just to concentrate more on pushing, being fast and most importantly having fun. As such, I've been pushing it closer to the limits (as in, on the white line) and this of course leads me to be over the line perhaps too much.

As I said, I'm not going to fight it, because frankly I haven't got the energy to. It's just not worth it. I'm here for fun.

So, since it's too late for a stewards enquiry, I'm going to let you guys decide what to do about it. Once all my league race videos are out (in about a week or so), I will put up a vote on what should be done. In the meantime, I will take it very cautiously in India and make sure to not take it so close to the limit.

Feel free to post your opinions in this thread for now and I will update it as each video gets released.

Silverstone:
[video=youtube;IB9sG5FeoeY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB9sG5FeoeY[/video]
Germany:
[video=youtube;k3mWaazrYCc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3mWaazrYCc[/video]
Hungary:
[video=youtube;nxpdH_iR5es]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxpdH_iR5es[/video]
Belgium:
[video=youtube;iZpofV4LU-c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZpofV4LU-c[/video]
Italy:
[video=youtube;gh_hBv-u8jM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh_hBv-u8jM[/video]
Singapore:
[video=youtube;7ZT4oM-GQeE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZT4oM-GQeE[/video]
Korea:
[video=youtube;i2sz_ntoDNY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2sz_ntoDNY[/video]
Japan:
[video=youtube;0AF8Gy4UPRE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AF8Gy4UPRE[/video]
India:
​[video=youtube;Pt3F7dl6C1k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt3F7dl6C1k[/video]
 

xOwnage133

AOR iRacing FR2.0 Season 4 Champion
Jan 13, 2014
166
139
I'll take a bit of responsibility here and say that I'm the one who kicked this off. I've noticed a lot of track extends and a few cuts.
I completely agree that it's not possible to keep your wheels within the white lines the whole time but this exceeds the limits.
Rules are rules:
• Stay within the white lines with at least two tyres at all times. Cutting corners, or extending the track, to gain an advantage is not allowed. Drivers found persistently breaking this rule will be punished retrospectively.

Have a look at
5:04 6:38 6:49 7:22 8:09 9:42 10:07 12:37 12:56 14:06 14:36 15:24 16:27 17:14 18:12 21:56 24:18 25:55
 

aalliigg

3-time AOR PC Split 1 Champion
Premium Member
Jan 13, 2014
242
53
xOwnage133;n18468 said:
I'll take a bit of responsibility here and say that I'm the one who kicked this off. I've noticed a lot of track extends and a few cuts.
I completely agree that it's not possible to keep your wheels within the white lines the whole time but this exceeds the limits.
Rules are rules:
• Stay within the white lines with at least two tyres at all times. Cutting corners, or extending the track, to gain an advantage is not allowed. Drivers found persistently breaking this rule will be punished retrospectively.

Have a look at
5:04 6:38 6:49 7:22 8:09 9:42 10:07 12:37 12:56 14:06 14:36 15:24 16:27 17:14 18:12 21:56 24:18 25:55
It's not just you.

I will say just bear in mind that my video is edited, and as such features only highlight laps, like running in a lot of dirty air or having either very worn or very fresh tyres. This makes it look worse than it is. I do agree that rules are rules though.
 

Xephyr

Pro Karter
Jan 13, 2014
37
0
In my opinion we need to concentrate on having fun, rather than being anally retentive.

Excessive cutting and extending to the point of gaining multiple seconds per lap like people in online lobbies is wrong. 100% agree. No-one has done this in this league, we're all very mature and just want to have fun.

Pushing as hard as you can to be competitive (this is by far the most competitive league in this game) and occasionally making a mistake, getting it wrong and gaining a tenth shouldn't be punished. Everyone does this in this league, even those that are complaining about Alex. Everyone.

By 'occassionally making a mistake, getting it wrong' I mean:
  • Turning in too early and cutting a corner by up to 1 tyre width.
  • Turning in too late / getting on the power too early and extending a corner by up to 1 tyre width.
Both of these can happen quite a few times per race, usually due to muscle memory. With the speed that the tyres degrade in this game, and the amount that a lot of us practice, our muscle memories for braking distances, turn-in points and acceleration points can cause us to cut on fresh tyres and extend on worn tyres.

Having said all that, this is much more of a problem for pad drivers than it is for wheel users as the degree of control that you get with a wheel allows you to correct your steering if you've turned in too early much more easily than for those using a pad. Let's look at an example: let's say that a driver realises he'd turned in too early... on a pad he might have to correct his analogue stick by 1-2mm for less than a second to avoid cutting the corner. That's a very intricate adjustment to make whilst also concentrating on trail-braking effectively and hitting your acceleration point. The same adjustment for a driver using a wheel would be 1-2 inches, which is much less of an intricate adjustment and is why I'm so jealous of how smooth all you wheel drivers are when I watch your videos.

...and that's one of the major reasons I wish I had a wheel rofl.
 

aalliigg

3-time AOR PC Split 1 Champion
Premium Member
Jan 13, 2014
242
53
Xephyr;n18533 said:
In my opinion we need to concentrate on having fun, rather than being anally retentive.

Excessive cutting and extending to the point of gaining multiple seconds per lap like people in online lobbies is wrong. 100% agree. No-one has done this in this league, we're all very mature and just want to have fun.

Pushing as hard as you can to be competitive (this is by far the most competitive league in this game) and occasionally making a mistake, getting it wrong and gaining a tenth shouldn't be punished. Everyone does this in this league, even those that are complaining about Alex. Everyone.

By 'occassionally making a mistake, getting it wrong' I mean:
  • Turning in too early and cutting a corner by up to 1 tyre width.
  • Turning in too late / getting on the power too early and extending a corner by up to 1 tyre width.
Both of these can happen quite a few times per race, usually due to muscle memory. With the speed that the tyres degrade in this game, and the amount that a lot of us practice, our muscle memories for braking distances, turn-in points and acceleration points can cause us to cut on fresh tyres and extend on worn tyres.

Having said all that, this is much more of a problem for pad drivers than it is for wheel users as the degree of control that you get with a wheel allows you to correct your steering if you've turned in too early much more easily than for those using a pad. Let's look at an example: let's say that a driver realises he'd turned in too early... on a pad he might have to correct his analogue stick by 1-2mm for less than a second to avoid cutting the corner. That's a very intricate adjustment to make whilst also concentrating on trail-braking effectively and hitting your acceleration point. The same adjustment for a driver using a wheel would be 1-2 inches, which is much less of an intricate adjustment and is why I'm so jealous of how smooth all you wheel drivers are when I watch your videos.

...and that's one of the major reasons I wish I had a wheel rofl.
I have to say I agree with you on the track limits. A wheel's width sounds good.

I think you should also make an attempt to fix it next lap. And then if you do it 3 laps in a row, it gets serious.
 

FisiFan91

AOR Founder (on hiatus)
Staff member
AOR Admin
Jan 12, 2014
17,686
13,616
As a general note, it's a bit dangerous to set a general stance of it being 'fine' to cut or extend corners by 1 wheel's width (or any other amount) as then drivers may try to do that constantly because they think it's allowed. A driver in AOR - which is built on racing being clean first and foremost - should always try their best to stay within the legal limits of the track, and intentionally cutting the white lines (to gain time, however much) should obviously not happen on any occasion.

As has been mentioned, it's human nature to make mistakes at times, and occasionally cutting across the white lines due to misjudging a corner can happen (and most likely will) to everyone. What the rules are mainly trying to prohibit, is drivers consistently/excessively doing this - meaning that over the course of a full race, much time will have been gained due to driving over the limit, with little or no effort being made to correct or reduce this.

It can be hard to distinguish between the two, but a clean driver should recognise in his driving when the boundaries are being pushed too much consistently throughout a race. It's a difficult point, but I hope this made any sense.
 

aalliigg

3-time AOR PC Split 1 Champion
Premium Member
Jan 13, 2014
242
53
FisiFan91;n18543 said:
As a general note, it's a bit dangerous to set a general stance of it being 'fine' to cut or extend corners by 1 wheel's width (or any other amount) as then drivers may try to do that constantly because they think it's allowed. A driver in AOR - which is built on racing being clean first and foremost - should always try their best to stay within the legal limits of the track, and intentionally cutting the white lines (to gain time, however much) should obviously not happen on any occasion.

As has been mentioned, it's human nature to make mistakes at times, and occasionally cutting across the white lines due to misjudging a corner can happen (and most likely will) to everyone. What the rules are mainly trying to prohibit, is drivers consistently/excessively doing this - meaning that over the course of a full race, much time will have been gained due to driving over the limit, with little or no effort being made to correct or reduce this.

It can be hard to distinguish between the two, but a clean driver should recognise in his driving when the boundaries are being pushed too much consistently throughout a race. It's a difficult point, but I hope this made any sense.
Have you had a chance to watch some of my Silverstone race? Would be interesting to get your viewpoint on it. :)
 

Rug

Legend
Premium Member
Jan 14, 2014
3,604
870
One of the most disappointing comments on YT was that someone (they may be the only one) thinks you're getting away with it purely because your involved in running the league.

I know others are being far more blatant than you and getting away with it, even though they are recording and posting their videos.

You're acknowledging it's happens, it's down to you to put it right going forward and quiet those doubters.
 

Chicane

F1 Reserve Driver
Feb 2, 2014
486
386
Ah, the usual debate that comes up sooner or later in every league and will remain inconclusive :)
My opinion: Alex is balancing on the limits but not blatantly exceeding it.

But if someone considers himself to be one of the fastest and best drivers out there, I challenge that person to do it in the cleanest way and keep 2 wheels inside the white line and be more proud and relaxed about his results. So basically I challenge Alex to adjust his driving style instead of adjusting peoples opinions about cornercutting to fit his current driving style.

Sorry to point the finger to a new driver but I think what Dark Lord did in Japan before he crashed his car was clearly beyond what is allowed, Especially in the degner corners.
 

aalliigg

3-time AOR PC Split 1 Champion
Premium Member
Jan 13, 2014
242
53
Chicane;n18645 said:
Ah, the usual debate that comes up sooner or later in every league and will remain inconclusive :)
My opinion: Alex is balancing on the limits but not blatantly exceeding it.

But if someone considers himself to be one of the fastest and best drivers out there, I challenge that person to do it in the cleanest way and keep 2 wheels inside the white line and be more proud and relaxed about his results. So basically I challenge Alex to adjust his driving style instead of adjusting peoples opinions about cornercutting to fit his current driving style.

Sorry to point the finger to a new driver but I think what Dark Lord did in Japan before he crashed his car was clearly beyond what is allowed, Especially in the degner corners.
Oh yea, I'm going to be a lot more cautious on the track limits. But I just don't want people feeling hard done by and like I got away with cheating.

Just saying "I'll fix that from now on" just feels like a massive cop out..