OPINION: Feedback thread | ApexOnlineRacing.com

OPINION: Feedback thread


Stevie

Former Super Mod
Premium Member
Aug 26, 2014
14,077
8,619
80353


We're approaching three quarters completion of Season 6, which means we're looking at Season 7, and what we can improve/change. This means we're doing our customary market research.

So what are your thoughts?
What worked? What didn't?
What would you like to see?

Would you like to see any rules changed?
A format switch?
RANDOM GRIDS?! No.
 

DeuxMilles

Premium Member
Premium Member
Mar 9, 2017
606
448
Hi,

I've just made three rounds as reserve and I'm very happy with this league (as I was with the ProjectCars [email protected] league).

Just one thought: I would appreciate shorter races, maximum length one hour. Additional we could have one or two endurance rounds (2h?) per season.

Random Grids? Never ever :)

cheers,
D.
 

Lindholdt

Premium Member
Premium Member
Apr 26, 2018
316
291
Hello :)
My first season in iRacing, and I even though I'm one of the slowest on track, I must say I love it (y)The three categories gives sow guys like me something to fight about, and I'm having a lot of great fighting during the races.
I like the format overall with practice time, qualifying time and duration af the main race.
Also following the official iRaing calendar is really nice, and I hope this wont change.
The amount of cars on track and how competitive it is, is just amazing. So is the commentating and the quality of the stream. I almost enjoy watching the stream of the race as much as driving the race it self. Great commentating by @Stevie and @King-kodiak high quality stuff IMO. Same goes for the very slick looking graphics for the steam @Niclas Domino, it really improves the overall impression of the stream. So great job by you guys, I really hope it continues in the next season, it's highly appreciated :)

I do have one point of critique that I would like to point out, and thats qualifying. Or rather the behavior of the drivers in qualifying.
I've been doing AOR leagues in Pcars for a year, and I must say, that the behavior in Pcars qualifying was way better than in this league. No idea why. But as one of the slower guys, I really feel that there is a lack of respect from some of the faster drivers, for my hotlaps. I've experienced a couple of times, that drivers ignore me or use me for drag, for thier own benefit, but ruining my fast laps. I know these guys are fighting for top posistions, and I'm at the back od the field, but it really should be that hard to keep good distance to the car in front of you, or time your hotlap start so you arent parked on the racing line just before start/finish, blocking people finishing a hotlap.
So I hope the coords for next season will do a bit more to tell that qualifying is a part of the race, and you HAVE to respect ALL drivers on the track.
An alternative could be lone qualifying, but it's less fun, and again, it really shoulndt be that hard to behave and respect fellow drivers in qualifying as well.

Other than that, I really like the league and it's certain that I'll be a driver for the next one as well :)
 
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N1kmido

F1 Senna Equivalent
Sep 17, 2016
912
906
I've experienced a couple of times, that drivers ignore me or use me for drag, for thier own benefit, but ruining my fast laps.
You should bring this to the stewards then because it´s against the rules. I´ve witnessed some similar situations throughout the season but I wasn´t involved directly. This is like a prime example of what the Stewards Panel is here for. I know many people don´t want to bring incidents they are involved in to the stewards because "crying" about something what is done and dusted already seems pointless most of the time (I´m one of them).

But the only purpose of this league having rules and stewards who care about clean + fun racing is to improve things on and off the track. I´ve only realized that when I got to help out coordinating the Endurance League over at PCars 2 which gave me the chance to see some of the stuff what´s happening behind the scenes. Everyone thinks opening a thread in the stewards panel will kill the atmosphere in the league but it will actually help to improve it unless people start to take things personal. Unless you do that you´ll be fine. :)
 
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Stevie

Former Super Mod
Premium Member
Aug 26, 2014
14,077
8,619
When it comes to the stewards enquiries and how you do them right. The one between @Dan_Suzuki and @mike66187 is a prime example of how they should be handled. Utterly polite disagreement. That was a disagreement over an incident that determined the race win and it was dealt with maturity and kindness, despite the situation.

That is how you enforce rules whilst maintaining a healthy atmosphere in the league.
 

Rin Hato

AOR Space Race Champion
Oct 17, 2016
1,110
980
Continuing from the Endurance thread, a possible change could be what @DeuxMilles said, and incorporating one or two extended rounds into next season at noteworthy tracks?
 
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Lindholdt

Premium Member
Premium Member
Apr 26, 2018
316
291
You should bring this to the stewards then because it´s against the rules. I´ve witnessed some similar situations throughout the season but I wasn´t involved directly. This is like a prime example of what the Stewards Panel is here for. I know many people don´t want to bring incidents they are involved in to the stewards because "crying" about something what is done and dusted already seems pointless most of the time (I´m one of them).

But the only purpose of this league having rules and stewards who care about clean + fun racing is to improve things on and off the track. I´ve only realized that when I got to help out coordinating the Endurance League over at PCars 2 which gave me the chance to see some of the stuff what´s happening behind the scenes. Everyone thinks opening a thread in the stewards panel will kill the atmosphere in the league but it will actually help to improve it unless people start to take things personal. Unless you do that you´ll be fine. :)
I will going forward. This is my first season and the first couple of these incidents I though I was just unlucky and let it slide, wont happen in the future. I just hope that it will get a small mention for the next season so that people will be a bit more aware about it, and we can avoid most of the reports :)
 

Walter---79

Premium Member
Premium Member
Oct 28, 2017
361
331
I like everything as it is now but as @DeuxMilles already mentioned would appreciate races from 1 hour as well.
Or maybe a separate league with GT3 cars and a shorter race format?
 

mike66187

Premium Member
Premium Member
Aug 11, 2018
146
92
So what are your thoughts?
So far it has been my most enjoyable season. The field is super strong and super fair to each other. This league has made Monday the best day of the week for sure. I think race length is good, it allows for good racing. The extra practice before each race is super nice, it really allows me to set my car up better if I didn't had the time to do it throughout the week. The commentators were superb. But I think above all that this group of drivers/staff have been immense fun to talk to and be around with on the track.

What worked?
Like i mentioned above the race format is super nice. The classsystem seems to be good once again. (at least from my pov).

What didn't?
Qualifying was sometimes a bit of a struggle, this was addressed propely on mosport tho. This is not really something that can be improved i think. I love the open qualies.

This season the racing for us pro's only kicked off after the pitstops. These pitstops happened in the final 20-15 mins. I think with a small fuelcap this time could be extended a bit.

What would you like to see?

Maybe a small fuelcap to extend the stint after the pitstop i think anywhere from 70%-90% would do.
 

Dan_Suzuki

AOR iRacing GTE Season 6 Champion
Premium Member
Dec 5, 2018
114
112
I think this is one of the best leagues on iRacing, definately the best I've driven in so far. The broadcast is very very good, I like that it follows an official iRacing Series for practise and the field is super close, this allows for awesome racing. I never had this good racing in any other league.

Some thoughts / suggestions:

Point system:
Consistency is key in this league when looking at the point distribution, maybe it's a little too much - I'd love to see the point system reward victorys a little more.
With the sub-class system I think it's not needed to give 25 drivers points. How about using the F1 point system?

25-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1 (+ 1 bonus point for fastest race lap - I would get rid of the bonus points for few incidents, that might discourage people from actual racing when they are at 0x close to the end)

That would give the 10 best overall drivers points (I dont think a Pro driver needs to be awarded points if he doesn't finish in the top 10) . And for the sub-classes the top10 should be fine as well.
Example: I think there are 13 Am drivers in the league right now. Even the last driver would get 16 pts in the class ... just for finishing. I don't really think that's needed.

Race format:
I like the current format. But when Stevie (I think it was Stevie?) mentioned reverse grids that made me thinking. How about:
  • Qualy (maybe introduce some kind of super-pole for the Top 8?)
  • 20 Minutes Sprint Race with Qualy Order
  • Invert Top10 from Sprint Race for a longer 60 Minute race (fuel cap 60-70%)
 

Gxbbs

Premium Member
Premium Member
Jan 14, 2014
1,996
1,000
Race format:
I like the current format. But when Stevie (I think it was Stevie?) mentioned reverse grids that made me thinking. How about:
  • Qualy (maybe introduce some kind of super-pole for the Top 8?)
  • 20 Minutes Sprint Race with Qualy Order
  • Invert Top10 from Sprint Race for a longer 60 Minute race (fuel cap 60-70%)
This is how it used to be and I enjoyed it. I would be a +1 for this.
 

Niclas Domino

iRacing Overlay Designer & AC Skin Creator
Staff member
iRacing Coordinator
Jul 31, 2016
1,717
1,211
Race format:
I like the current format. But when Stevie (I think it was Stevie?) mentioned reverse grids that made me thinking. How about:
  • Qualy (maybe introduce some kind of super-pole for the Top 8?)
  • 20 Minutes Sprint Race with Qualy Order
  • Invert Top10 from Sprint Race for a longer 60 Minute race (fuel cap 60-70%)
[/QUOTE]
My only question is, how will you do this with Sub Classes?
 

Stephan

AOR iRacing GTE S3 AM Champion & Super Mod
Staff member
Super Moderator
iRacing Coordinator
Premium Member
Oct 19, 2016
8,090
5,194
Personally I am not a fan of sprint races. I prefer longer races. Maybe it’s because I am off pace and not good at overtaking but usually very consistent, which suits the long races very well.

That said, I wouldn’t mind extending the 80min a bit, however I actually think it’s a brilliant, near perfect duration. Longer than a standard 45 or 60min race, so it’s a little challenge but still short enough to give any driver a fair shot without endurance experience.

Fuel caps are an interesting option and we thought about adding them when fire changes were possible while refueling
 

Merlin Cooper

Premium Member
Premium Member
Nov 2, 2017
341
206
Like the format of the league as it is - would just recommend thinking about a view Minor topics:

A) Make qualifying even more interesting by not allowing to go out on track after pressing ESC. Therefore drivers would have to manage the risk they are taking on their hotlap and if some faster driver get's it wrong their is additional fighting for position...

B) Do not change the class assignment of a driver during the season. Once a class get's assigned the driver stays in the class (otherwise positions in the classement do not feel right to me).

The approach to review a new driver's pace for 2-3 races before he /she gets assigned to a class is good - but after the first season races in the past should be used.

This could be easily achieved by simply using the overall classification but would require that every position get's points for overall class ranking. Depending on your last season you either get promoted to the next higher class or the other way around. That would mean that racing for position on track between classes would get more important if you want to make your way up to the PRO class - or want to stay in the class you are in. Furthermore finishing the race would be more important as well.

C)number of drivers assigned to a class should be equally
 
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Niclas Domino

iRacing Overlay Designer & AC Skin Creator
Staff member
iRacing Coordinator
Jul 31, 2016
1,717
1,211
Like the format of the league as it is - would just recommend thinking about a view Minor topics:

A) Make qualifying even more interesting by not allowing to go out on track after pressing ESC. Therefore drivers would have to manage the risk they are taking on their hotlap and if some faster driver get's it wrong their is additional fighting for position...

B) Do not change the class assignment of a driver during the season. Once a class get's assigned the driver stays in the class (otherwise positions in the classement do not feel right to me).

The approach to review a new driver's pace for 2-3 races before he /she gets assigned to a class is good - but after the first season races in the past should be used.

This could be easily achieved by simply using the overall classification but would require that every position get's points for overall class ranking. Depending on your last season you either get promoted to the next higher class or the other way around. That would mean that racing for position on track between classes would get more important if you want to make your way up to the PRO class - or want to stay in the class you are in. Furthermore finishing the race would be more important as well.

C)number of drivers assigned to a class should be equally
Thanks for the info we will take some of it under advisement. Some I can try and give an answer on now, why we do as we do, but that is not to say that things can chance :)

A) I do like this idea, might be difficult to police, but we will have a talk about it in the team.

C) there will never be an equal number of drivers in each class, as drivers get put into classes based on their skills, then if a driver is pro, but there is no more room, we just put him in pro/am?? Then he will just dominate that? No that is unrealistic sorry
 

Merlin Cooper

Premium Member
Premium Member
Nov 2, 2017
341
206
C) there will never be an equal number of drivers in each class, as drivers get put into classes based on their skills, then if a driver is pro, but there is no more room, we just put him in pro/am?? Then he will just dominate that? No that is unrealistic sorry
That depends on the model. Let's assume you do have 60 drivers. You could say assign 6 spots to rookie (those who are new to the league and will be assigned to a class after 2-3 races). The remaining 54 spots will be equally distributed to PRO, PRO-AM and AM class. the assignment of drivers from last years season could be done in two ways:

A) like in soccer leagues the last 3 will be moved a class down and the first three will move up. Obviously you want be able to go above PRO or below AM.

B) Using the overall standing from last season - but that would require theat you get "class-points" for every finished race.

Yes it would mean that an PRO driver could be demoted to PRO-AM or if get's really worth to AM class. But doing a good season he could get promoted again.
 

Merlin Cooper

Premium Member
Premium Member
Nov 2, 2017
341
206
Thanks for the info we will take some of it under advisement. Some I can try and give an answer on now, why we do as we do, but that is not to say that things can chance :)

A) I do like this idea, might be difficult to police, but we will have a talk about it in the team.
Well isn't that shown in the results for the practice session? I'm pretty sure that there will be an entry calling Discontinuity when you press ESC. You can look that up in your hosted sessions results
 
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Bucefal

AOR iRacing GTE 2 time Pro-AM Champion
Premium Member
Sep 2, 2018
221
156
Well I'm a bit late on this...


What worked

- Extended practice sessions. Great idea when you had small time of practice during the week or when you want to validate some last setup adjustments
- Extended grid. The more, the funnier. Even though it can create new problems. I'll talk about this later...
- Everything that made me sign for the 3rd time. Race format, class championships, open quali (yes it works, if you're smart)


What didn't

- My lucky charm. Two seasons in a row mostly without major incidents and everything went wrong on this one :cry:

- Overall driving standards. Of course, more people on track means more potential for troubles. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have the feeling I heard way more angry people during this season. Maybe it's because I spent more time mid-pack, but I also saw more drivers who think racing is just driving fast without seeing the big picture of the championship.

- Stewards penalties. This point might be related to the one above. When you see drivers being involved in incidents 3 races in a row (or 3 out of 4, even 5) and penalised for it, clearly something is not working in the scale of penalties. If you had a reprimand (or small penalty) in a race and you are at fault again the next one, the sanction should be harsher, and so on... I know some VEC could be mentionned here, so I'm not saying this to start an argument.


What would you like to see?

- Fuel cap.
I'm not sure how much it would change the race structure but I think it's worth trying it.

- Separate point system for class championships. It's not that it's not working, but as mentionned above in the thread, it's a bit odd to give points to the 25 first drivers in class when some class doesn't even have 25 drivers. For the overall classification it's ok, but for class I'd restrict the points for the 10 first places, with F1 points system.

- Extended races. 10 more minutes? Pleease?


Actually, the "What would you like to see?" section doesn't really matters as I won't race next season. iRacing season 3 has mostly been an off season for me in the past years: beach, music festivals, friends and family visiting for the holidays, all kind of stuff that doesn't really suit with a serious simracing schedule I'm afraid. If I fail the job interviews to come (which is highly possible), I shall be back on season 8 ;)
 

Zonerouge12

Formula 4 2nd Driver
Oct 3, 2018
105
42
Well I'm a bit late on this...


What worked

- Extended practice sessions. Great idea when you had small time of practice during the week or when you want to validate some last setup adjustments
- Extended grid. The more, the funnier. Even though it can create new problems. I'll talk about this later...
- Everything that made me sign for the 3rd time. Race format, class championships, open quali (yes it works, if you're smart)


What didn't

- My lucky charm. Two seasons in a row mostly without major incidents and everything went wrong on this one :cry:

- Overall driving standards. Of course, more people on track means more potential for troubles. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have the feeling I heard way more angry people during this season. Maybe it's because I spent more time mid-pack, but I also saw more drivers who think racing is just driving fast without seeing the big picture of the championship.

- Stewards penalties. This point might be related to the one above. When you see drivers being involved in incidents 3 races in a row (or 3 out of 4, even 5) and penalised for it, clearly something is not working in the scale of penalties. If you had a reprimand (or small penalty) in a race and you are at fault again the next one, the sanction should be harsher, and so on... I know some VEC could be mentionned here, so I'm not saying this to start an argument.


What would you like to see?

- Fuel cap.
I'm not sure how much it would change the race structure but I think it's worth trying it.

- Separate point system for class championships. It's not that it's not working, but as mentionned above in the thread, it's a bit odd to give points to the 25 first drivers in class when some class doesn't even have 25 drivers. For the overall classification it's ok, but for class I'd restrict the points for the 10 first places, with F1 points system.

- Extended races. 10 more minutes? Pleease?
I share most of my teammate’s arguments and would add the possibility/necessity...to change tires ! ;)
 
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