Closed T6 - R1 - Lap 1, Jumping the start w/Martinez

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Koopid

Pro Karter
Aug 18, 2020
26
3
Sweden
ACC Tier 6 + Round Number: 1
League Coordinator: @Borderline
Date:2020-09-15
Members Involved:Martinez (car 91) and me Gustafsson
Description:
The cars infront of me at the start are going very slow when the 70kmh limiter goes on so of course I stay behind in my position. Noticing that martinez is inside my car i first just hold my speed but he is NOT lifting to give me. Because this has never happened to me and I dont know what happens if we are in the same place when the lights go green and the collisions are turned on, but remembering when the bug that let people spawn in the same spot on the race start earlier and that produced massive damage, I decide to lift myself. Dont want to ruin my race before it even started. He does not lift though, he keeps same pace and end up infront of me. Again, since I dont want to get damage when collisons are turned off I can't really apply throttle until he is completely through. This ofcourse makes my own start very late and I end up getting overtaken by loads of car on the start line.

For me this is not only intentional, but really bad, unsportsmanlike, behaviour. I would go so far as to call it cheating to abuse game mechanics in that manner. If damage would occur when collisions are turned on it would also be very reckless driving.

Video evidence:
 
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Chechum

Premium Member
Premium Member
Oct 13, 2018
211
195
Spain
I'm going to watch my replay tonight, I just held the 70 km/h limiter or even less. I would have got a penalty if so, like other drivers have received in previous races. By the way normally I'm the one who's always overtaken for going at 67 km/h or so. I only speeded when the game told me to do it. I think you did something wrong, everybody overtook you. In fact, I started next to Uros (p18 and p19) and we both kept in parallel. I don't like this kind of start because they are like the jungle, I said it after last season, which was my first season and I had seen 2-3 drivers passing next to me before turn 1 eeevery race. But it wasn't their fault.
It's really ugly to accuse me of unsportmanlike, look at the braking in turn 1, for example, and call me that. Or look at how many cars I let overtake me in race (for example in sector 2 and the main straight ) when my tyres were dying (except in the last two laps).
 

Koopid

Pro Karter
Aug 18, 2020
26
3
Sweden
I'm going to watch my replay tonight, I just held the 70 km/h limiter or even less. I would have got a penalty if so, like other drivers have received in previous races. By the way normally I'm the one who's always overtaken for going at 67 km/h or so. I only speeded when the game told me to do it. I think you did something wrong, everybody overtook you. In fact, I started next to Uros (p18 and p19) and we both kept in parallel. I don't like this kind of start because they are like the jungle, I said it after last season, which was my first season and I had seen 2-3 drivers passing next to me before turn 1. But it wasn't their fault.
It's really ugly to accuse me of unsportmanlike, look at the braking in turn 1, for example, and call me that. Or look at how many cars I let overtake me in race (for example in sector 2 and the main straight ) when my tyres were dying (except in the last two laps).

What i did "wrong" that made ppl overtake me is holding until you passed me by going through me because I didnt know if you get damage when the lights go green if you are inside eachother.

And, can you go through people like that in a real race? If you can, fine, if not.. Well, you are abusing game mechanics to get positions. You just went on like I wasnt there. And yes, i call that both cheating and unsportsmanlike. If others dont agree, thats fine. And you cant expect to be able to hold 70km/h if there are 15 ppl ahead of you going slower.
 

Chechum

Premium Member
Premium Member
Oct 13, 2018
211
195
Spain
But I was almost as afraid and surprised as you were, because I saw ghost cars also overlapping my car. But I had experienced those similar situations in this game too, so I decided to do what the game indicated me. For example, when we have to start moving to a side, I'm usually forced to accelerate a lot because I'm in red area according to the game. I don't know why, because in one-to-one row I always respect the green area. Then, the game tells you to keep around 70 km/h. If you slow down considerably, I'm not sure what can happen, honestly. Maybe it's worse and you get a DT or damage people behind. From your words, I think you must have not played much in ACC, all due respect (not telling you are a noob driver at all, don't misunderstand me please ;) it's just about the experience in this game ). Of course in real life there are no ghost cars, I agree with you. I would prefer a standing start.
When I finish dinner, I will send a clip of that and I will try to find examples of previous experiences.
 

Chechum

Premium Member
Premium Member
Oct 13, 2018
211
195
Spain

Here you can see all the mess it was. Honestly, if I did something wrong, many drivers did it as well (included you at 00:37 of my video if you compare this to real life). If we all did something wrong, please I'd like to be informed because I think this was quite messy. I believe we must follow the green area at every moment, considered it as the reference. Anyway, I understand your point perfectly and I remembered my first or second race in ACC on Kyalami when 3-4 drivers had overtaken me before last corner of formation lap.
The driver who started next to you was M.Bernardi. Look at where he was and where you were, for example. I think somebody in front of us may have some kind of distraction or game problem which affected us, too.
As well, be aware of how Aucamp, Daras, Guarda and Borderline almost ate me despite starting behind me. I don't blame it on them at all, though.
 

Koopid

Pro Karter
Aug 18, 2020
26
3
Sweden
1. I dont care what you do before the 70kmh limiter comes on. That is not going to effect your race.
2. I dont care that you overtake me on the straight. I care that you did so by abusing game mechanics
3. Did any of Aucamp, Daras, Guarda and Borderline go inside your car before the green lights to overtake you?
4. The cars infront of me were also slow. I knew that if I pushed at the start there would be NO room for me AND you behind Bas Schilstra.

And please stop putting this on me. First I am doing something wrong in the start because I lifted when your car was inside mine. Then I am "not experienced". And sure, I didnt start simracing until earlier this year, it is my 4th league though. And the game will NEVER tell you to go 70km/h. It tells you not to go faster than 70km/h. That is every speed available between 1kmh and 70kmh... You do not understand my point at all. And I didnt post this until I showed the little online community of more experienced simracers that I am part of. They all told me I should report it.

And the reason I posted this report is not that it ruined my race (it didn't) or that I lost positions (I did, but I always do in the start). The reason I posted is that if people start doing this at race starts and its not handled, the starts are going to be even more chaotic than they are now.

Anyway, I am done replying to this. The stewards will decide if it was right or wrong, and once they have, we will both know for sure.

Dunno why, but I can't see that @Borderline has viewed this report yet.
 

Chechum

Premium Member
Premium Member
Oct 13, 2018
211
195
Spain
I haven't called you a noob driver, read again my message. And now I have to apologize on one thing, because I've just realized this has been my mistake and I've been really noob actually: I was wrong with my pair, as it should have been p20, not p18. So a huge noob (and this action is a general noob one xD) idea of me. In my defence, again the game confused me with that green area (which I believed it was mandatory to stay on it) and "hold your speed". Before the rush of moving to a side, I had it clear in my mind that p20 was the target to watch and wait. But in the end it's my mistake to have focused in Uros as the reference to be closer on his right instead of waiting for p20 anyway. I assume that. You were right. Next time I won't pay much attention to coloured areas.
Regarding your first message, how do you know it was intentional? Have you watched me driving before? I invite you to watch how many times I let pass me some drivers around my position in turn 4, I could have held my position. Or look at the first turn, keeping my line and braking very carefully (and getting damage from behind). What could I have gained if I wanted to advance my start? I was p19, dude, very aware my best position would have been p15. I would have been much more aggressive in that turn 4 if I was like you want me to call. So don't go around accusing people this way.
 
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Koopid

Pro Karter
Aug 18, 2020
26
3
Sweden
I haven't called you a noob driver, read again my message. And now I have to apologize on one thing, because I've just realized this has been my mistake and I've been really noob actually: I was wrong with my pair, as it should have been p20, not p18. So a huge noob (and this action is a general noob one xD) idea of me. In my defence, again the game confused me with that green area (which I believed it was mandatory to stay on it) and "hold your speed". Before the rush of moving to a side, I had it clear in my mind that p20 was the target to watch and wait. But in the end it's my mistake to have focused in Uros as the reference to be closer on his right instead of waiting for p20 anyway. I assume that. You were right. Next time I won't pay much attention to coloured areas.
Regarding your first message, how do you know it was intentional? Have you watched me driving before? I invite you to watch how many times I let pass me some drivers around my position in turn 4, I could have held my position. Or look at the first turn, keeping my line and braking very carefully (and getting damage from behind). What could I have gained if I wanted to advance my start? I was p19, dude, very aware my best position would have been p15. I would have been much more aggressive in that turn 4 if I was like you want me to call. So don't go around accusing people this way.

Sigh, OK, I will reply again. PLEASE read my posts before posting replies to them.. I have never used the word noob.. (until now) in my posts.

EDIT: This report is about your start in this race. /EDIT

I don't care at all about if you were in the wrong position in regard to other drivers than me, I don't care at all about if you were careful in ANY other part of ANY other race. I only care about the way you started THIS race. And I know it was intentional because you must have seen that you were inside my car and you didn't lift.

EDIT AGAIN: And lets just wait for the stewards to review this, there is no point going back and forwards about this over and over, if you are not in fault, you will not get a penalty, if you are in fault you will and we will both know the rules for sure /EDIT AGAIN
 
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Chechum

Premium Member
Premium Member
Oct 13, 2018
211
195
Spain
I forgot to say that the start of race (green lights on) surprised me, I expected to be later. Not an excuse, though, it's just to justify that my move could be seen as aggressive during the overlap
 

Chechum

Premium Member
Premium Member
Oct 13, 2018
211
195
Spain
Sigh, OK, I will reply again. PLEASE read my posts before posting replies to them.. I have never used the word noob.. (until now) in my posts.

EDIT: This report is about your start in this race. /EDIT

I don't care at all about if you were in the wrong position in regard to other drivers than me, I don't care at all about if you were careful in ANY other part of ANY other race. I only care about the way you started THIS race. And I know it was intentional because you must have seen that you were inside my car and you didn't lift.

EDIT AGAIN: And lets just wait for the stewards to review this, there is no point going back and forwards about this over and over, if you are not in fault, you will not get a penalty, if you are in fault you will and we will both know the rules for sure /EDIT AGAIN

It's my fault (although I think the game system motivated my distraction and stress also) , I've already written it. Read it again and I hope you can calm down, without writing with upper case letters or accusing me of intentional and unsportsmanlike actions despite not knowing me. Sorry for my distraction on that start, yesterday I was wrong in my arguments (so my post was invalid) and it's been this morning when I've realized of my mistake.
 

Head Steward

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AOR
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2.6 Widget formation lap/start

● Drivers are at all times supposed to strictly follow the instructions given by the in-game widget.
● Drive through penalties awarded by the game will not be reverted.

AOR adopted the widget start and trusted it to take care of possible jump starts.
As the developers made clear, drivers should only care about their positions relative to the green box in the widget.
In this case @Koopid seems to be too far behind while @Chechum was in the position he was meant to be.

The stewards decided that no further action is necessary.

@Chechum @Koopid
@Borderline
 
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