Moved - Tier 2 Round 3 - Lap 4-15 - Weaving + Late line switching | ApexOnlineRacing.com

Moved Tier 2 Round 3 - Lap 4-15 - Weaving + Late line switching


Status
Not open for further replies.

DaveGaming

Formula 4 Test Driver
Sep 5, 2018
89
62
Platform + League: PC, ACC Pro
League Coordinator: @krop
Date: 2/25/2020
Members Involved:
@Recential @Shooter80
Description:
Before starting with the description of the incidents: Unfortunately I didn't know that you need to bind the function of a quick save for the replay within the race to see the first half of the race, therefore I do not have the chase cam views of the incidents. In case someone can help me out, I would be very grateful.
In lap 11 Recential was weaving heavily on the straight, which is not allowed according to rule 1.3.


I got tired of this "strat" from him as you can see in the clip, as I stop following his slipstream line, leaving him to do whatever he wants on the straight but that weaving thing also came into place when Shooter80 was behind us in lap 15. He switched his line (again 1.3) very late which lead me to risk a critical situation with Shooter80 if I followed the Bentley:


The same issue with choosing a line very late also happened a few laps ago in lap 4 where he went to the middle of the track and when I was right behind him, he starts closing the inside line (again 1.3). I hope, someone can provide a chase cam view for that so we can see that better:


Ultimately in lap 12, when I finally got to overtake him, he just ran into me, causing about 5 seconds of damage repair. The incident was clearly avoidable:

 

Recential

Semi-Pro Karter
Dec 1, 2018
24
14
Excessive weaving and blocking is not allowed. When defending from another car, choose a line on the track and stick to it. Don't know if there is any one in the World that thinks .3 or .4 seconds behind on a Straight in a GT Car is a Fight.

Braking the Tow and Weaving in a Position Battle are 2 seperate things. First clip, easy to see that you are no where near to getting into a Position Battle, which means that ofc, first, i can, like in every Series, Brake the Tow how i wish to and second, don't yet have to stick to my Line, since obviously we are not in a Position Fight.

Second Clip. Idk, do you want to Shooter to maybe move over to your side and have another very close call like we had when we Overtook a Car together? Also here, no where near a Position Fight between us, which also means i can get back into the Ideal Line before the Braking Mark. Shooter was very close to getting on to my Inside, which meant i would have had to stick to the Outside Line then, he didn't quite go as agressive into the Fight then he wanted or w/e but i left him his Line in the Active Battle.

Third Clip, Dave, if you honestly have a Problem with me, maybe we can get into a Discord Channel or smth. But that is Insane. You were not next to me, neither did i close the Line since you still had your Space on the Left, so what do you expect? That i let you go through? Idk, just because we had our Issues in Spain and Zandvoort, you don't need to actually get pitty just because Phobia isn't getting Penalized as you wan't him to. This is still a GT Race not your Formula Races where everything is way more strictly.

Last Incident is My Fault Obviously, even though you braked at the Bentley Braking Mark as the Porsche. Maybe i need to accept that not everybody Test's his Braking Points in Fight Positions before the Races. But since i knew it was my fault, i waited till he was able to continue infront of me.

But Dave, i Like how you didn't put in the Clip where you gave me a Clap on the Right Side into T1 which led to me going super Wide and Ultimately loosing the Position.
 
Last edited:

Shooter80

Assetto Corsa Coordinator
Staff member
AC Coordinator
Premium Member
Dec 23, 2017
1,234
1,287
I don't really have anything to add on either side that has not been presented already.

I don't feel I was personally inconvenienced by any of the specific actions in the videos and its for the stewards to decide if any rules were broken.
 

DaveGaming

Formula 4 Test Driver
Sep 5, 2018
89
62
"Excessive weaving and blocking is not allowed. When defending from another car, choose a line on the track and stick to it. Don't know if there is any one in the World that thinks .3 or .4 seconds behind on a Straight in a GT Car is a Fight."

- How is .3-.4 on that straight not a chance of starting a fight? But good that you mention that. I guess that is the point why you were weaving here while I was .1 behind? (one more incident added here) as here:

Incident 5)


And that's the reason why you choose your line that late in incident 6) (timecode 1:29:25 because I cannot add more media in 1 post) so I do not know where to go on the straight? The rules state you should make your line clear early:

What you posted (in a separate thread) I will call incident 7) - As you can see I am on the inside of turn 2 and always leave a car width of space on the outside while he turns into me on the apex. We slightly touch but that doesn't really effect my racing line so you can see my smooth turning there.

Evidence to incident 5-7)



I'd like to withdraw the third incident I originally posted. nothing really to blame here, just looked like he was going to the inside. As I can see now, that is not the case.


For Incident 4) it's interesting how the Bentley and the BMW started braking at the exact same time, while the BMW was running on the racing line and the Bentley was on a well compromised line. Plus: Where did you wait after your punt? Damage was already caused, you overtook me and I did not get past until my undercut.

Evidence for incident 1-2 + 4)


To your point if that is personal: Not at all. Although you were offending me and my community on my first acc aor youtube video, I was calm during the whole race and very patient. Is it personal to you? Seems so, after your whole hate train on me on Youtube & Twitch, sentences like "your chat wasn't the only reason why I finally wanted to leave you behind me" and your unsportsmanlike behavior on track. I also don't get why you have to mention Phobia here. Starting the stream I just said I was not sure why his punt was a minor collision and your punt was a moderate collision. That argument was in your favor btw. but you still see this as a personal issue against you? Interesting. I tried to argue with you in the past and as everyone here can see: While I post in a factual manner (and even withdraw stuff I would just like to see checked by someone who has the replay), you mention Phobia for no reason and go personal in your argumentation for whatever reason, as you did in the very first time we met on track here in AOR :unsure:. Is a stewards inquiry necessarily personal? No. I just want clean sportsmanlike racing, that's all.



Thanks @dopey401 for providing the replay material <3
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: StephenCarry

DaveGaming

Formula 4 Test Driver
Sep 5, 2018
89
62
Wait what? This seems, interesting. (Only commenting cause my name has been mentioned).
Just curious: Your reaction to my post came before Recential mentioned you. Do you react on all inquirys of your split? As far as I can see in the panel that is not the case. Or is it pure coincidence? :)

By the way: Never said your penalty was not high enough. It's just that the discrepancy to Recentials penalty wondered me ;)
 

PhoB1a

Formula Karter
Jun 21, 2018
55
13
Just curious: Your reaction to my post came before Recential mentioned you. Do you react on all inquirys of your split? As far as I can see in the panel that is not the case. Or is it pure coincidence? :)

By the way: Never said your penalty was not high enough. It's just that the discrepancy to Recentials penalty wondered me ;)
Oh just like your reaction and your band of friends to my inquiries, Just find it interesting. And the discrepancy to Recential and my penalty from what i can deduce from my side is that i tried to wait, i also lost in excess of 23+ positions on mine. I could be wrong, I would suggest taking it up with the stewards rather than making comments about it (to avoid future confusion).
 
Last edited:

DaveGaming

Formula 4 Test Driver
Sep 5, 2018
89
62
Oh just like your reaction and your band of friends to my inquiries, Just find it interesting. And the discrepancy to Recential and my penalty from what i can deduce from my side is that i tried to wait, i also lost in excess of 23+ positions on mine. I could be wrong, I would suggest taking it up with the stewards rather than making comments about it.
Which friends? I only know Ava and Timou in ACC personally. If it is other people they might know me from YT/Twitch and like to react on my incidents, which also doesn't really make me comfortable to be honest. The only time I reacted to an incident of yours was when you and Tom collided which was not related to you. The discrepancy cannot be only in the waiting, otherwise it would have both been called either a "minor" or a "moderate" collision. I accept the decision so there was nothing to add here in the forum. As far as I know it is allowed to openly speak about given penalties, right? Well, if so, I will keep commenting on what happened in the past races in my stream as I always used to do to let people know what happened. In 99% of cases, where I instantly understood the penalties given and in the 1% case I was not sure about why penalties vary.

Anyway, this is going hard offtopic.
 

VoodooChild

Assetto Corsa Coordinator
Staff member
AC Coordinator
Mar 27, 2018
1,544
1,098
please keep the discussion as bare and close to the topic as possible in this subforum, stewards' job is heavy enough without all the noise.

if you need to discuss about anything, your tier's subforum is a better place to do it (possibly keeping the discussion as civil as possible, we welcome rivalries, not hatred)
 
  • Like
Reactions: DaveGaming

Recential

Semi-Pro Karter
Dec 1, 2018
24
14
Since it's not enough to just talk to Dave Personally, since he again posted stuff.


Maybe i have to clarify a little bit more what i mean by .3-.4 Seconds aren't a Position Fight what means the Defending Rule should not be used in this Occasion.

INC5) Most of the Stuff will be talked about Privatly, so i keep it bare minimum. The +.1 Seconds Gap on the Relative, could be taken as, we are already in a fight, but if you look at the Gap between Dave and Me, you can clearly see that he is yet, not close enough to get into a Real Position Fight. Since Dave doesn't follow me, i can open up the Gap slightly further due to the Topspeed different for both Cars. Since he now is even further behind me and now where near attacking, i move back over to the Ideal Line, since it's way Open and im not in a Position Fight.

INC6) Not much to add here, i look at the Mirror see that Dave definetly has enough "boost" from the Slipstream to be able to get alongside me, as soon as i realise that i start to move to my defending Line. When you look at my Mirror, you can see how i don't even see him moving over to the right side, which i only now saw from the Chase Cam. Still way enough time to react to the Move, so i don't know what else to add.

INC4) I Did not wait? You think i accelerate that way all the Time and literally "Block" the BMW because i waited for you and he didn't expect that. "You Overtook me and i did not get past until the undercut" Buddy, i overtook you at the Backstraight, Half a Lap after i punted you and waited for you? What are you expecting? That i stay behind you all Race again and propably have to take avoiding Actions 8 Times like in Catalunya? Here btw, is the Evidence that i stayed behind for half a Lap, like already posted by Dave himself.
 

morphee7

Assetto Corsa Coordinator
Staff member
AC Coordinator
Premium Member
Jan 27, 2018
937
454
added all extra info to the enquiry
 

DaveGaming

Formula 4 Test Driver
Sep 5, 2018
89
62
Inc 4) You block the BMW because you were entering the corner from the inside line. You were just slightly slower at your minimum speed around the corner than me when taking the normal racing line.
Inc 5) Nothing to add if that still is not weaving to you.
Inc 6) Still late change of your lane which should be clear early enough according to the rules.

"Since it's not enough to just talk to Dave Personally, since he again posted stuff."

Yeah, I got nothing to hide so I post all evidence, even on incident 7 which was introduced by you. That's what the steward panel is there for.

"What are you expecting? That i stay behind you all Race again and propably have to take avoiding Actions 8 Times like in Catalunya?"

Make proper moves instead of weaving, switching lanes late and punting me. And probably that you don't compare a scenario where you were lapped with this scenario. That is all. Thank you :)
 
  • Funny
Reactions: Recential

Recential

Semi-Pro Karter
Dec 1, 2018
24
14
"Inc 4) You block the BMW because you were entering the corner from the inside line. You were just slightly slower at your minimum speed around the corner than me when taking the normal racing line. "

Like, i mean, you really should think about who knows better what the Bentley can do. Literally 112H on ACC, and almost never drove other Cars. I Could have EASILY Started Accelerating harder to get the Car Turned Around and get a good exit again.

INC5) Of Course it's weaving/Breaking the Tow, show me the Rule that States that im not allowed to Weave/Brake the Tow at any given Moment. It literally is stated under "Defending" and uses the Condition that we are fighting. Since you refuse to Stay in my Slipstream, you don't gain on the Straight so you stay at such far distance that you are no where near a Attack and i don't even have to think about Defending.

""What are you expecting? That i stay behind you all Race again and propably have to take avoiding Actions 8 Times like in Catalunya?"

Make proper moves instead of weaving, switching lanes late and punting me. And probably that you don't compare a scenario where you were lapped with this scenario. That is all. Thank you "

You didn't Answer the Question how it was asked. So i try it again, "What are you expecting? That i stay behind you all Race again and propably have to take avoiding Actions 8 Times like in Catalunya?"

I let you go again ahead of me and then Continued to battle half a Lap later.
 

Head Steward

Head Steward
Staff member
F1 Coordinator
iRacing Coordinator
PCARS Coordinator
AC Coordinator
Premium Member
Jan 25, 2014
7,068
2,642
The stewards reviewed the evidence provided and decided that there was no violation of the rule 1.3, as the cars were not close enough for an overtaking opportunity.
The rule states that:
● Excessive weaving and blocking is not allowed. When defending from another car, choose a line on the track and stick to it. Do not force a chasing car off the track by leaving it too little room. If the attacking car is alongside you going into a corner (generally if the attacking car's front wheels is alongside or ahead of the defending car's rear wheels), you must adjust your line to avoid contact.
● Do not leave it too late to defend a move. Make your move clearly and fairly. If you move too late and the car behind has no time to react, it is not them who will be blamed.

The stewards concluded that at no point - in the provided evidence - @Recential was engaged in active defense from an overtake opportunity while weaving for "breaking the tow".

For the second part of the inquiry, the stewards concluded that @Recential caused a minor avoidable collision on @DaveGaming, therefore @Recential will receive 5 seconds penalty on his race results and 5 penalty points on his AOR driver license.

@Recential @DaveGaming
@krop @Shooter80
 
Status
Not open for further replies.