Moved - Tier 2 - Round 3 - Taken out | ApexOnlineRacing.com

Moved Tier 2 - Round 3 - Taken out


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Birche

Semi-Pro Karter
Jan 21, 2020
15
14
ACC Tier + Round Number: Tier 3, Round 2
League Coordinator: @krop
Date: 26/2 - 2020
Members Involved: Me @Birche #555 and @eXcole #255
Description: I (#555) had avoid car #255 not crash into me in T3 and T5 when he clearly not was alongside of me. This made me have slow exit out of T5 gave #255 chance in T6, but in T7 he was not more side by side with me and he run wide on T7 exit and took me out when rejoin the track. He did not wait for me.

@Birche #555 (sadly virtual mirror does not show in replay mode)


@Birche #555 rear camera


@eXcole #255


Helicorsa app do not show up in replay mode, so here birds eye on #555



I really hate drivers that thinks only because you put nose on apex you right to be there, T3 I can call it OK, for you where alongside before we braked. But the T5 move you only **** people off and force them to slow down, you were not enough side by side, I had make room for you, that was my corner, but it was me that had take avoiding action to not get hit by you, this battle could end already in T5.

This is 3 time I get takeout by another driver in 3 races, I really start lose faith on drivers in this league. :(
So thank you @eXcole for cross my "top 10" dreams this race, hope that P10 really taste good for you.
 

eXcole

Formula 4 2nd Driver
Sep 11, 2018
104
120
I'm glad you included the whole run up to the incident, thank you. Let's cover that first.
I can't see you taking any avoiding action based on your steering input, besides leaving barely enough room for a car you can't see which is somewhere on your right. Thats a reasonable course of action regardless of what the other car is trying to do to which i would have taken too without thinking about it. Besides, if you look carefully just before Turn 5 you are ahead and i braked enough to fall in back just behind you if you would close the gap. If you want to judge me for a split second decision to then use the little space you left open from my perspective, go ahead. I bet alot would try to do the same to get a run on you. Regardless, the racing line then goes to the outside onto the kerbs and is only restricted by the yellow sausages, so that too isn't avoiding anything as long as you follow this line, which you did, and i manage to stay inside, which i did. Yes, its close and hard racing but both of us did the best we could without harming eachother and if nothing happened afterwards it would be a highlight of the race.

This my corner your corner type of stuff sure is a point you can make, but even watching my POV back its not as clear if there is enough room for me to slide back behind you at any point, also i don't want to brake too hard to achieve this as there's another car behind i don't want to compromise doing that. Avoiding to rear end you as you brake was more important to me so i stayed to your right. Then, the virtual mirror is pretty much useless as i was to your right the whole time, also if you had time to judge the helicorsa closely in that moment i salute you, i was focused on what was going on on the road.

Now on to the real incident.
Again the mirror wouldn't have helped you as i was to your side. And you didn't know where i was in turn 7, indicated by you lifting briefly. Thats sadly relevant. Normally there isn't a reason to lift except you have a car right next to you on the outside. I wasn't there, i was to your right and already behind. Good on you for beeing careful again, but by this logic i don't understand why you then don't leave the 1 meter i technically would've needed to avoid the flaps.
From my POV you can see that i go back to the left, but indeed correct a little to the right again to just clear the flaps. And thats where we already make contact. I want to emphasize that this is in no way off-track, you can go even wider. The game gives a warning if you're too far and i received none. The flaps are the next indicator where you need to be and i honestly don't see a reason why i cannot follow the - indeed - outer line of the track.
Also in my POV can be seen that you only appear in my side window, you are technically ahead in turn 7 but hard to judge from my perspective, i focus on getting inside the flaps while you take the "outside" line right in front of me. Wouldn't have been a problem if you didn't lift briefly and i would have slipped right in behind you. Wouldn't have been a problem if you left 1 meter more on the outside for the car you couldn't see either.
Not trying to blame you, it also wouldn't happen if i was the one to lift briefly. But from what i saw outside my window there wasn't a reason to do that, can't predict you leave some km/h on the table in that corner for me, because as said, i wasn't there anymore that would've warranted it.

On a side note, there was also a textbook example how this should've gone with almost the same positions, but room given (which wouldn't have cost @Birche anything in our case). I think that demonstrates why i don't feel entirely responsible for this, the mindset i have as a driver and why i continued on my way without much thinking.

Anyway, i'm sorry you're having a bad time so far @Birche and hope the next rounds will go smoothly for you and Godzilla.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: StephenCarry

Birche

Semi-Pro Karter
Jan 21, 2020
15
14
what I learn the take limit is the white lines and you have to stay with two or more wheels inside them, what the game say has nothing to do this. Rule 1.4

yes I know in real life they run over white lines but you were even car wide outside of exit curb and that is not more racetrack. Rule 1.6.2 say if run out side track you have rejoin save way.

If this had be real racetrack and a not stupid testtrack (tarmac everywhere) there should had been gravel or grass on exit and you should need to lift to stay on track. you gain advantage going wide.

do you now how understery the nissan is on power, never should make if I had not lift off. I run a litte wide in turn 6 and to carry flow I had no time get better racing line through T7 becurce you was side by in begin of turn 6 and had to lift.

In video you send the aston lifted somthing that you did not

T5 incident I lift of the brake make me run litte bit wide to give you room you can see in video( you are not drving only with steering wheel), but I can see that I could take and cut you off and you could aviod it . I know you can do this to make drivers make mistake but you only build up fear betwen drivers and no respect
 
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  • Agree
Reactions: StephenCarry

eXcole

Formula 4 2nd Driver
Sep 11, 2018
104
120
If you want to be nitpicky with the rules, then 1.4 clearly states "Stay within the track boundaries with at least two tyres at all times. The track boundaries are defined in game."
It states absolutely nothing about white lines. And as i said, if you go too wide there the game will give you a warning (or invalidate the lap in quali), which it didn't. There is no visible clue on where the line is but since the game recognizes if you're too far out that counts for me. It's not my fault PR is a parking lot but it sure is strict regarding penalties.
Also i don't know why you think it's an advantage being out there since the fastest line is from the far right to left taking as much of the inner kerb as possible without cutting it / or generally making it as straight as possible. Going wider isn't an advantage and here rather circumstance due to you being somewhere on the inside where i can't go. Otherwise i would always go wide no?

What gained me time was the lifting from you, which is impossible for me to know. Again thats not your fault but still a contributing factor to why i was suddenly in a position again to even be able to hit you. In return i was out of view for you aswell. Couldn't be left, wasn't behind, so i'm somewhere right and account for that. Even if the stewards decide it's technically my fault as the "car behind" i still can't see me doing something different. Its a straight with plenty of space.

Yes the Aston did lift, but he didn't even need to as he was more alongside the Audi with plenty of room. Him lifting rather put him in exactly the spot or relative position to the Audi as i was to you. The Audi drifted a little to the left to give some space and the Aston continued to just avoid the flaps like i was going to. If you want to conclude something negative out of it than probably that we both didn't do what these guys did.

T5 you can cut me off if you want and its nice that you didn't. If you had i wouldn't complain about it because its your right to do so, and if i hit you as a consequence i would accept being at fault no matter what. But we both came out alive no harm done, just hard racing. I won't apologize for that.

All said.
 

Birche

Semi-Pro Karter
Jan 21, 2020
15
14
you where never along side me in T7 why I do need give room. you finde way and speed going on right side of me and out side track. if you say you never did go off track why did you not stay there? instead turn in to me.

Rule 1.4.1
● Stay within the track boundaries with at least two tyres at all times. The track boundaries are defined in game.

Yes in game the track boundaries are defined with white lines, how can you decide " Stay within the track boundaries with at least two tyres at all times" if it is no line to go after. And going after the game track limit system are unreliable (game give sometime very stupid warnings or penalty and sometime it gives nothing)

any way it is the stewart that decide in end.
 

morphee7

Assetto Corsa Coordinator
Staff member
AC Coordinator
Premium Member
Jan 27, 2018
908
432
guys this is not the place fot this sort of discussion, you have put in the enquiry the evidance has been provided with a apposing POV and it has now been moved to the stewards for investigation.
there is no need for all this quoting of the rules and what you should and should not do, if there is fault found in either case the relevant punishment will be given so can we please leave it at that unless there is fresh evidence that shows something else that the original evidence does not show
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Birche

Head Steward

Head Steward
Staff member
F1 Coordinator
iRacing Coordinator
PCARS Coordinator
AC Coordinator
Premium Member
Jan 25, 2014
6,913
2,633
the stewards reviewed the evidence and decided that @eXcole caused a moderate avoidable collision by tagging @Birche 's rear end while returning from a track limits extension.
@eXcole recevies 10 seconds penalty on his race results and 10 penalty points on hi AOR driver license.

@eXcole @Birche
@krop @Shooter80
 
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